Old Super Champ With EV Speaker

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by zimbo, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. zimbo

    zimbo Friend of Leo's

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    I have an old Super Champ for sale on Reverb and some guy was giving me a hard time saying it wasn't in mint condition because it didn't have the EV speaker. I told him it had the standard Fender blue speaker. Kind of a jerk.

    Just curious but it seems like the EV version was very limited. I can't even find a video demoing it although Rivera says it was great.
     
  2. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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  3. zimbo

    zimbo Friend of Leo's

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  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Zimbo, fwiw, the EVI speaker was an upgrade from the Eminence or Pyle speakers that were the ‘normal’ speaker. That upgrade cost $100 back then. Also, fwiw, the price of the Super Champ in 1982 was $295. It increased to $349....what a bargain, imho. A $100 speaker upgrade was costly in comparison, right?
     
  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Which amp is yours, zimbo? Got a link?
     
  6. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Tell him I have 3 of those EV's. $150 each + shipping
     
  7. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

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    Lucky me, I bought an original 1982 Super Champ (standard) for $150 from a dealer friend of mine. I still have it. One of these days, I'm going to do a recap job on it. Even if you can find an EV Force 10 for a good price, I hear they're almost impossible to fit in the cabinet. A lot of people say the Eminence Ragin Cajun sounds very good in that box, I might do that upgrade as well.
     
  8. zimbo

    zimbo Friend of Leo's

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    You can see in the pics of the one for sale that the reverb tank is mounted outside the cabinet. I'll list my amp for sale here. It is minty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  9. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have the Alessandro SC64 GA10 in mine and can't say enough good things about it. Ever since new (and I paid $US60 for it open box but barely used) it's just sounded better and better.

    It's very efficient, got no problem cutting through in a band mix and keeps weight under 30lb
    Clean - it sounds like a classic Jensen with papery sweet tones. Think about classic country or early rock tones.

    Dirty, it doesn't fart or go muddy - can handle much gain without calling it quits.

    I'd be interested to try the new SC64 tophat alnico in this.
     
  10. bluzkat

    bluzkat Tele-Holic

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    Love me some old EVs, especially the old SROs (16# magnets :eek:). Put a couple of those in your Twin and run up the stairs.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    I know the only things the Super Champ XD really has in common with the Rivera era SC are both are tube powered, 1x10 and the name.That being said, since I can't afford an original SC, I have a SCDX. I also had a JBL D110F laying around, so I dropped it in the SCDX. The result is amazing crystalline highs, that legendary JBL punch, and, with the "Enhancer" cabinet, a huge fat bottom (just like Mama's:p). _561.JPG
     
  12. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Paul Rivera:"We developed a really cool 10 inch speaker for this amplifier, specifically for this amplifier, when I was at Fender, and we had an optional speaker as well. It came standard, with a ceramic magnet, 10 inch, and the optional speaker was an Electro-Voice 10. Now when we did the Electro-Voice 10, it added a huge amount of headroom, at least 5dB of headroom, over what the stock speaker was. The only penalty, was a lot of weight.”


    Or here, the full text taken from two inteviews by Paul Rivera


    Electro-Voice EVI 10 speakers

    Paul Rivera: “EV 10 is really a magical speaker. I first started using EV 10s somewhere in the 70s when I was modifying Vibroluxes for people like Lee Ritenour and Mitch Holder, and getting a lot of inquiries of how they can change the sound of their Vibrolux, make it louder, make it more reliable, you know, putting em in Tremoluxes, and, uh, also the predecessor to the Super Champ was my own modified Champs, where I'd insert a push-pull output stage, a Princeton output transformer, some extra gain stages on a, on a Champ or Vibro-Champ chassis. And the problem was, is finding a really good-sounding ten. So the solution to the good-sounding ten wound up being the EV 10.

    Now when I went to Fender and I started designing the Super Champ and brought them the whole Super Champ concept, I thought to myself, regardless of the tens that were able to get; ceramic magnet tens; we need something that really projects a lot more volume, is reliable for multi-year-long tours that, that won't blow out so easy. And so the EV 10 was a candidate, and we put the EV 10 as an option on the Super Champ. In fact the Super Champ Woodies - the Super Pro Super Champs, with the limited run that we did - were all equipped with EVs as standard. And it was a big change.

    Now, I mean, why an EV? Well it has a huge motor. It's got thick top plates, thick bottom plates and a tremendous amount of electromotive force. What does that translate to? It translates to efficiency and output. You can gain anywhere from 6 to 9dB difference between an EV 10 and another ten. So let's say that it was a 3 dB difference, which it, it is usually far more than that. You're doubling your output power. So a little 20-watt amp is going to sound like a 40-watt amp just by having an EV 10. Unfortunately, they don't make them anymore. And, fortunately for us, we do have a small number of them that we'll be using in a limited run of amplifiers. But they are just a fabulous ten.

    If you look at the entire equation - of the amplifier, the output transformer, the speaker - and you create a single unit, the EV 10 is a highly inductive speaker with a lower DCR than a standard 8 Ohm speaker. I think the DCR is like 5.7 Ohms or so. And as such, because of its inductive properties as well, it forms a very peculiar - and in a positive way - coupling with our particular output transformers, and I first observed this with EVs on Fender Deluxe Reverbs back in the 70s when I'd be modifying Deluxe Reverbs for Lee Ritenour and Larry Carlton and putting EVs in it, and then watching the fact that the waveform was very, very peculiar (the waveform) because that particular output transformer - coupled with the actual inductive reactance and EMF and everything else of that EV, created its own sound, and that output transformer is a big part of that, out of that equation. If you were to, say, stick a ceramic magnet, standard 8 Ohm, CTS or Eminence or Pyle, that same thing, you'd have a completely different result. And it's obvious; you can actually see it on an oscilloscope. It is not like Voodoo; it's real.............

    ….........So, for example, in the Super Champ, as well as in our Pubster 25, there is a coupling effect between that transformer and the speaker; and that it is a magic unit of the equation. And the way that they work together and the way that the wave-form actually does not, it doesn't even look sinusoidal; it looks more triangular when it comes out, because of the peculiar reactance issues between that output transformer and the voice coil motor assembly of the EV.”


    The Super Champ.

    Paul Rivera: “It is an 18Watt amplifier with a single 10 inch speaker, that utilized a completely different topology than any Fender before it. And it was my desire to create the ultimate pocket-rocket – which is just a high-gain, super-screaming small little amp that you could sit on a stool, do a gig, record a session, whenever it was, take it in your suitcase, and do a fly date with it, and we succeeded. This has become quite a legend, this Super Champ.

    I own two of them; I own one of the first prototypes, with a four tube preamp, as well a production version; here. I found this one in a local dealer, it was in perfect condition, and I had to snag it.

    So, anyway, it utilizes, like I have said before when we where talking about the Stage Lead, utilizes the reverb driver circuit as part of the distortion character for the lead sounds on this amplifier. It uses two 6V6 output tubes – 6V6's are some of my favourite output tubes, and the reason being is - they sound very close to EL84's, or 6BQ5's, except they're a lot more reliable. Great distortion tones – super-warm, fat – and so this amplifier does it all.

    So a lots of the 80's guys like Steve Farris, with Mister Mister, and Alan* from Go West, and Warren DeMartini, and so on, lot of these guys played these amplifiers in the 80's, and they would do their entire tour dates with a pair of these in stereo. It just has that great distortion sound, and a really decent clean sound, and because it's only 18Watts, they could keep their stage volume fairly low. It also became a hit in the recording studios, because its got such a classic tone for such a small size, easy to mike, and so-on.

    Some of the features on this amplifier, of course, like I've said before, came about from my modifying Fenders for the session guys in Los Angeles. So features like this pull fat switch, came from Jay Gradon and I when we worked together on the six position fat switch. And so the idea of actually doing a lead sound, also came from Princetons and Champs that I modified for people in Studio City.

    We developed a really cool 10 inch speaker for this amplifier, specifically for this amplifier, when I was at Fender, and we had an optional speaker as well. It came standard, with a ceramic magnet, 10 inch, and the optional speaker was an Electro-Voice 10. Now when we did the Electro-Voice 10, it added a huge amount of headroom, at least 5dB of headroom, over what the stock speaker was. The only penalty, was a lot of weight.”



    *Alan Murphy - For some reason, Alan found that he could no longer get a good sound out of his Mesa Boogie mk II. During a trade show John Hill from Fender introduced Alan to Paul Rivera who built the original Mesa Boogie amplifiers. Paul had since moved to Fender and designed a small 18-watt amplifier called the Super Champ. Alan was bemused when asked to demonstrate this tiny amplifier, but after a couple of days, despite the lack of volume, became totally dedicated to the tone. From then on (1982) Alan always used Super Champs for recording solos. Alan owned 3 Super Champs, and none were modified at all, aside from changing the wiring so that the footswitch controlled the mid-boost instead of reverb (Alan didn’t use the amplifier’s reverb.)
     
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    that is not an EVI speaker but rather an EVM 10”, which is a higher power speaker than the EVI. The 150 watt EVI/Force speaker’s magnet is smaller. Imho, the amp in the picture is an aberration. And...the reverb tank orientation is incorrect. That incorrect orientation has an effect on what the tank does.
    The EVI is large enough that the reverb tank has to be moved in a ?Super .champ, but it still fits where it is supposed to fit....on the floor of the inside of the cab...in the proper orientation.


    The Super ChampXwhatever amp’s are not ‘tube powered’. They are a hybrid amp with a tube output section....and little else other than size in common with the Super Champ.
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Fwiw, I have pulled the EV Force speakers from my two Super Champs. I re-installed the Eminence Legend ALK 1028 speakers that had been in the amps since the early ‘90’s. To be frank, I prefer the ALKs in the Super Champ. The main difference is that the ALKs yield more high end harmonic content in the overdrive mode....and I like that. The other reason for the change was that I had a project that called for the EVs...a 1964 Dual Showman in a 2x10 Pro Sonic cab....

    872BBBFE-3494-48FC-9BDA-CF3065626882.jpeg
     
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  15. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I paid $US850 for mine although I got scalped by Fleabay on shipping from US on that Pitney Bowes scsm. Aus 240 volt transformer. Recapped. Clipped one cap on level pot for drive.

    IMG_20180409_143900.jpg

    IMG_20180416_220610.jpg
     
  16. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks for that clarification. That is what I meant, since the preamp section of the SCDX is digital/SS, unlike the original SC.
     
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  17. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Poster Extraordinaire

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    Does the Super Champ control layout ( regardless of speaker option)
    Allow for dialing in a loud clean ( similar to BF clean?) tone?
    Or was it strictly a high gain/ saturated distortion amp?
    Was there a foot switch Gain boost ability?
    Just curious, thanks.

    I remember in the mid-'90's a local guitar shop had the wood cabinet Super Champs FS for maybe $450, and I thought "Who the hell would pay that for a little practice amp?!"
    I knew nothing, now I think I know a little less nothing.
     
  18. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The Super Champ is at heart a Princeton Reverb circuit without the tremolo and with two gain pull options. If you do not pull the Lead option and/or the Mid boost option, you have a BF Princeton Reverb amp. Pull the mid boost and you have a midrange tweed thing. Pull the Lead option and you can get into any level of gain that you want. This amp can mimic any tweed one wants by tweaking the Lead gain and the Lead level control, and it can do screaming high harmonic gain....in addition to that BF reverb Sonic. I would have bought that Ltd. Edition oak cab Super Champ in a heartbeat for $450. Fwiw, David Gilmour’s Ltd. Ed. Super Champ rig sold in the mid-‘OP’s for $1350.....It had the oak extension cab with it. All of the Ltd. Ed. SC’s had the EVI speaker.

    oh.....and I do not care for the two stock speakers, which were an Eminence which is thin and harsh and a Pyle which was richer but inarticulate. Speakers matter....ime.
     
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  19. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thanks! Appreciated ( I don't retain anything, but always enjoy ' amp education ' even if it's just a moment!)
     
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