Old brown Fender I just found. Should I keep it?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Steve327, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Dr. Bill

    Dr. Bill Tele-Afflicted

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    That's the holy grail of Fender amps. Congratulations and Merry Christmas!
     
  2. Steve327

    Steve327 TDPRI Member

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    Wally

    A few years back I almost pulled the trigger on a minty brown Bandmaster from around October of 1960. It was a very interesting one in that it had the 45217 OT and the 6 preamp layout of the 'A' circuit. There were a couple other things about it that made it a strange transition piece, but my memory is a bit clouded at the moment over what they were. I was chewing on that purchase for about 5 months and by the time I decided to throw caution to the wind and buy it even though I couldn't afford it, the seller sent it to Europe or Asia somewhere. I really really wanted that amp. But man, the seller was holding out for about $7500 and I just didnt have it at the time of discovery (and frankly would have gotten myself in quite the jam when I did find a way to fund it months later). So guess it goes to the lesson that patience paid off.

    I have Never seen a 59 BROWN Bandmaster. Are those like the fabled 59 Concerts with the metal knobs?
    As I understand it, these brown Bandmasters, in their very short run of months in production, they first had the center volume, 5 preamp tube model which supposedly ran into May of 1960 when this was one was made. This one is Not a center volume, but still retained the 6G7 circuit. Some weeks later they apparently started with the 'A' circuit and the 6 preamp tube layout and regular Non pink toned brown tolex.
     
  3. Radspin

    Radspin Friend of Leo's

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    Holy crap, what a find! I've hit the jackpot a few times at garage sales (this past summer I got a Larrivee electric bass--you read that right--at a price I'm embarrassed to state here, but the guy knew what he had, it needed some work and he was willing to let it go cheap), but never considered storage locker auctions. I always figured they'd be attended by "pros" who would outbid and outfox regular people. Maybe not!
     
  4. Inventour

    Inventour Tele-Holic

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    Really cool Bandmaster, they made about 200 plus of this one so we read.

    I have some pics of my 1960 Concert so you can compare the chassis caps and all. I see your amp has the rare Astron Yellow Rectifier Diodes next to the Bias Cap, Look at the pic on my amp and you can see them better.

    That OT is the perfect size for home playing, it's like the Tweed Super/Pro/Bandmaster. I have the 8 ohm OT in my Pro.

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    Here is your bandmaster chassis. Notice on your chassis the front is bent,
    it looks like the guitar cable was in the jack when the amp tipped over and fell on the front side to cause this dent. You can easily straighten the dent by cutting a piece of 3/4" x 2-1/2" by the width of the chassis (Measure where it is not dented, near the PT side) You place the wood across the chassis on the inside and gently tap it until the chassis starts to bend back into shape. Sometimes you need to cut a piece about 1/8" longer, so when you bend it back in the damaged area, it will give-a-little and be very close to straight again. Don't just hit it with a hammer. Use the wooden-stick method. You can also put a piece of wood on the back side before you attempt to wedge it back, so you won't blow-out the back by accident/. You can use something simple like a Paint Stir Stick on the back side.

    Your also missing two (2) nickel plated circuit board screws, right above the phase inverter and on the far left side of the board. Someone must have worked on the amp before.. Did you find them inside the amp? If not I have some old originals in stock.

    Tell me the codes to your 2 original Jensens, I will check to see if I have a 3rd for you. Are they P10R or P10Q and the date codes 2205?? or 2206??

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  5. SoK66

    SoK66 Tele-Afflicted

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    I've seen a photo of one but I can't place it. It had the metal knobs. May have been a factory proto.

    The early '60 brown amp 5 tubers most often will have the 5G* model code, but some have 6G* on their tube charts. That's the only non-reverse 3x10 Bandmaster I've ever seen, rare indeed! Sorry I missed that in my earlier post.

    The transition 6G* amps are inconsistent in their specs, but are generally close to the preamp & PI values of the 5G* amps, but with the -A amps vibrato circuit. My Nov '60 brown Super has the pinkish tolex & maroon grille of the earlier ones, 5G* cap values but with later volume control placement and the later vibrato circuit. Very cool amps in this era.
     
  6. Steve327

    Steve327 TDPRI Member

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    Hey, thanks for the info. Yeah, noticed that dent right away. Definitely will be addressing that.
    Could certainly use the screws if you have some for sale.
    he speaker codes of the original 2 are P10Q C6942 220017. Would of course love to match those to a third.
    The October 1960 I was going to jump on was clearly a non pink brown and was not a recovered unit (I knew the seller and had bought a few high end amps from him and he would have been able to tell a recover a mile away).

    I appreciate the input and certainly any help if you can direct me to a speaker.
     
  7. Steve327

    Steve327 TDPRI Member

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    This one is a 5G7 on the chart. Not sure why I didn't notice it immediately.
     
  8. gmann

    gmann Friend of Leo's

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    This one doesn't have the center vol.
     
  9. Steve327

    Steve327 TDPRI Member

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    Nope. Most of the 5G7 Bandmasters apparently had center volume. I think May of 1960 was another transition period. they retained the 5G7 circuit (Supposedly) and RCA speaker out, but lost the center volume. By fall the 6G7(a) came around with what I believe was the oxblood grill cloth and the standard speaker out jack most of us are familiar with.
     
  10. centervolume

    centervolume TDPRI Member

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    looks like the usual suspects have chimed in, happy 2013 to all!

    the 5G7 is great, congrats on the score. JE is the month they transitioned out of center volume arrangement on that model, I have 00689 and it has the cv arrangement as well as a few JD stamps but mostly JE.

    some came with 45216 OT (4 Ohm) and some came with 45217 (8 Ohm); they work fine either way - the latter is a big mismatch; the schumachers could handle this type of thing better than the triads.

    also, some came with P10Rs and some with P10Qs, just depends on what was lying around I guess. The Rs have a sharper midrange attack and more presence, the Qs are a little bigger on the bottom end, darker.

    I am chipping away at a deal for another one of these amps with the fancy knobs, will post if it works out.
     
  11. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I feel like strangling you.
     
  12. JonesKY

    JonesKY Tele-Meister

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    Congrats on the great find! Very cool!
     
  13. sk8g0at

    sk8g0at Tele-Meister

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    great amp you have there. it reminded me of an article i just read.

    Hole to Nowhere: Some of you may have noticed that the very early brown tolex amps from 1960 have a hole (sometimes plugged) on the back of the chassis labeled "Pulse Adjust." We have yet to find an amp with a potentiometer mounted there and no schematics that we have found to date show a "pulse adjust" pot. We speculate that Leo may have envisioned (and maybe even prototyped) a simple signal-injecting circuit whereby he planned to inject a pulse into the amp and adjust a control to optimize the amp's response to that pulse. This could have been a high frequency pulse and the amp's response could have been adjusted to yield the best high frequency reproduction just short of allowing a high frequency parasitic oscillation.

    Or... it could have involved injecting a high level pulse and the control was adjusted to optimize the amp's response to obtain the best (balanced) sine wave with minimum crossover. Or... it could have involved injecting a "square wave" and the control was adjusted to obtain the best non-ringing, non-sagging waveform. Or... it could simply have been a bias adjustment. Despite all the theory and conjecture, Fender clearly deemed the Pulse Adjust control to be unnecessary.

    http://www.superchamp.dk/papers/dating_fender_tube_amps.htm
     
  14. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Could it be that "pulse adjust" was meant to make some adjustment to the tremolo? This is the 1st thing I would think of..
     
  15. fauxsuper

    fauxsuper Tele-Afflicted

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    Thanks for clearing up that "hole to nowhere" mystery, I've wondered about that for years. I only remember seeing it on one amp and it made me suspicious the amp had been modded, as there didn't seem to be anything inside to corespond to it.
     
  16. SnidelyWhiplash

    SnidelyWhiplash Friend of Leo's

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    Lucky dog!!! ;)
     
  17. jmiles

    jmiles Friend of Leo's

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    I wanna hear the "VIBRATE-OH!" Gotta be wunnerful, wunnerful!
     
  18. RubyRae

    RubyRae Friend of Leo's

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    Wow. I was with no internet over the Holidays and missed this thread.
    Holy ****, this has got to be the winner for "best tdpri deal" of 2012.
    You came screaming into the finish line with this dandy.

    Baby I'm amazed...
     
  19. markw51

    markw51 Tele-Afflicted

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    Replace the power supply filter caps, clean up the pots, and you are probably good to go.
     
  20. DADGAD

    DADGAD Friend of Leo's

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    Old brown Fender I just found. Should I keep it?

    In a word, YES. It would be easier to win the lottery that find another like it. You sir have made the best amp score ever!

    I need to hit up some storage facility sales. Maybe I'll find a 1958 sunburst Les Paul.
     
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