68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
I can see traces of headstock lacquer on the nut 'wall' facing the tuners. That's a factory nut cut that high.
Okay, string height at the nut ...
- Thread starter 68Kustom68
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A photo of the nut and first fret area taken from the bass side would help, with the low-E string on the guitar for scale.
Apologies if these questions have already been answered.
You mentioned a setup in the original post - I have to wonder why this issue wasn't addressed at that time, was there a reason? Can that person be asked to fix the nut slots?
Are the strings the original strings that came with the guitar, or the same gauge? Are the strings fully seated in the nut slots?
Apologies if these questions have already been answered.
You mentioned a setup in the original post - I have to wonder why this issue wasn't addressed at that time, was there a reason? Can that person be asked to fix the nut slots?
Are the strings the original strings that came with the guitar, or the same gauge? Are the strings fully seated in the nut slots?
Joe-Bob
Doctor of Teleocity
You should be able to get good action with those numbers. That said, they could be lower.
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
Never had a setup where a tech saws into nut slots. That's a major alteration to a guitar.
This Tele is a 2016 that I got used a few months back from an online sale. I change strings all the time. The nut looks to be factory.
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
The current nut is cut so high that a capo would mar the wood trying to get the strings locked to the first position. I can't even press the low string to the fretboard.
With a capo at 3rd position, the clearance below the low string at first fret should be paper-thin. Call it it .002".
My Tele sits at .010" with that type of measurement.
I guess I'd take the guitar back to whoever did the setup and show them the problem. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned at some point, before you took the guitar home after the last work they did.
One way or another it seems like the nut slots need to be fixed to be playable.
One way or another it seems like the nut slots need to be fixed to be playable.
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
A tech doing a setup will look at neck relief and saddle height. Cutting down the nut slots is a significant modification. It does seem everyone has become used to what Fender ships, though.
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
Yep, the solution is adjustment to actual playability from what Fender sells us! Thank goodness I got this nice Tele at quite low price--and that my new Strat has a store warranty to cover its same mod!
It's funny because my other recent acquistion, an '08 Strat, shows obvious modification to lower its nut slots to better playability. The mod to this guitar revealed the built-in deficiency of the stock guitars.
Brent Hutto
Tele-Afflicted
Well FWIW, I played around 8-10 Telecasters and 3-4 Strats in Guitar Center and another local store when shopping for my Tele and while slightly high nut slots were the norm, none of them seemed more than a few thousandths above optimum to me. All brands and models of guitar come with the slots anywhere from a couple thousandths to maybe ten thousandths or so too high which is plenty to affect intonation and make barre chord uncomortable. Only very occasionally have I seen a guitar come from the factory with unplayably high action at the nut (and never on a Fender or Squier).
So it seems extremely unlucky that you ended up with two out of two Fender guitars with completely off the charts high nut slots. If I understand what you've posted correctly, you're saying all the slots needed to be lower to .020" or .030" to be playable?
So it seems extremely unlucky that you ended up with two out of two Fender guitars with completely off the charts high nut slots. If I understand what you've posted correctly, you're saying all the slots needed to be lower to .020" or .030" to be playable?
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
It could be that my Tele has an aftermarket replacement nut by prior owner, but I see lacquer on it. That suggests it's factory, though I suppose it could be from a touch-up from damage if the original nut was knocked free.
My used 2016 Tele and new 2022 Pro II Strat measure .030" and .028" clearance between crown of first fret and string bottom.
With a capo at third position, clearance between crown of first fret and string bottom should be maybe .003". My guitars measure at .010".
I looked at other 2022 Pros on the rack--all have same nut height. My Gibson's nut is cut low and I modded an acoustic for nice low action that way too.
This all comes from the used '08 Strat I got most recently that outplays the newer, younger models. Guess what? Prior owner had the stock nut filed WAY down.
Brent Hutto
Tele-Afflicted
Yes, that seems in keeping with the norm for Fender and other manufacturers (including acoustic guitars I've played from Martin and others). Even manufacturers who usually provided a good straight out-of-box setup experience (Ibanez, Taylor, Eastman) will have that extra .004-.008" of string height at the nut.
But the one you ended up with being far higher than that I'd almost bet was not shipped that way from Fender.
I'm pretty sure the manufacturers err strongly on the side of making sure they never send out a guitar that's going to have one or more LOW nut slots by the time it's in the buyers hands. That usually means unacceptable buzzing leading to having to install a new nut. Warranty nightmare if one ends up too low.
Speaking of which, one of my pet peeves of almost every manufacturer of electric guitars is they glue the nut in place. So when the slots inevitably wear themselves too low a few years down the road you risk damaging the neck just to remove and replace the stupid nut.
68Kustom68
TDPRI Member
The used 2016 Tele and new 2022 Pro II Strat measure almost identically in (excess) height. The bass strings below 4th position are like a scalloped neck. I see this too with Fenders on the store rack.
I don't think I've ever worn through nut slots even with regular practicing, rehearsing, and gigging!
HankC
TDPRI Member
I'm a guitar tech. I work on close to 100 guitars per month. I know that many sources say to measure nut slots from the fretboard, but don't do that. It is meaningless! There are two, much better ways to measure your nut slot heights -
1 - quick and easy: Fret at 3rd fret and tap each string over the 1st fret. You want to see a bit less than a business card thickness of a gap but more than a gnat's eyelash! In case there are no gnats handy, here's a second, more accurate way -
2 - Fret at the highest fret or where the fretboard meets the body and levels off. Now measure between each string and the first fret. Use clippings from a D string and a B string. The B string should slide under without touching, but the D string should not. In other words, you want no more than 0.020" gap on wound strings, but at least 0.015", while 0.013" to 0.017" is ok for unwound strings.
BTW - if you're not happy with the setup you got, you did NOT get a "...very nice setup...". All guitar pros should guarantee satisfaction for at least a week, if not a full month.
Ricky D.
Doctor of Teleocity
You should maybe talk to some other techs. The guy that does my guitars will tweak the nut slots and fix a couple high frets along with the usual adjustments as part of his normal setup.
BTW, first fret open strings clearance is .015”-.018”.
I use this method for a quick and easy ballpark measurement before I do the final adjustment, as follows:
Assuming that your action is set and the guitar is playing satisfactorily buzz free on fretted notes...
-Fret a note at the 1st fret.
-Notice (or measure, if you like) the margin by which the string clears the 2nd fret.
--THIS IS ALL THE SPACE YOU NEED BETWEEN THE OPEN STRING AND THE 1ST FRET. If it works for the 2nd fret, it will work for the 1st.
Now...if you use Hank's test from above and fret the 3rd fret, the string will be touching the 2nd fret.
There are a couple challenges associated with my method...
1-There is very little room for error. A couple to many strokes with the file, or hit a slightly softer spot on a bone nut and the slot it too low and you're screwed.
2-Because the string is touching a fret behind the fretted note, you may (I'm not actually sure, but I strongly suspect) get increased fret wear down by the campfire chords.
For clarification, I might do 5 setups a month. If I were doing 90, like HankC, I would definitely be using his method.
It gets you VERY close.
The previously mentioned methods work fine, but if you want another relatively foolproof way to get nut height correct, get one of these:
musiccitybridge.com
Nut Slot Gauge - Guitar Repair Tool
The Music City Bridge “Nut Slot Gauge.” This simple and effective tool ensures you achieve the lowest possible nut action while eliminating open-string buzz.
