Okay, string height at the nut ...

[68Kustom68]

Hi,

After getting a very nice setup with some snaggy frets fixed, the action on my new used Tele still sucks. Yes, relief and radius and saddle height and intonation all done correctly. Then I recalled the low-cost (but nice) J200 knock-off that I got as a gift years ago--the guitar whose nut and saddle I filed and sanded to get the action down to playable.

I looked at my Tele's nut. Like, it looks a lot of space there. An original Fender USA factory nut on a Tele Pro CANNOT have been cut THAT high. Never as high as a cheap overseas pseudo-J200 ... right? Right?

So, I measured the action on that pseudo-J200 and my Gibson 135 by using a feeler gauge between 6th string and fretboard right at the nut. Both around .030 to .035" from bottom of 6th string to fretboard. (The doctored J200 is lowest!)

Now, measured the 2016 USA Tele Pro. A whopping .065" between 6th string and fretboard at the nut. An index finger and even a capo at the first fret cannot depress that string to the fretboard. It behaves like an Yngwie scallop job! Next, I checked my off-the-rack 2022 Pro II Strat. A little north of .060".

My J200 overseas knockoff had originally .058" clearance which made an F barre almost impossible, I recall, which is why I filed and sanded it.

Is .060" to .065" the Fender standard spec? A nut on TWO US-made 'Pro' model electrics are cut well higher than a Chibson J200 acoustic--really?

No amount of neck relief or saddle adjustment is gonna help action when a nut is acting as a pylon bridge. I'm thinking the Tele and new Strat need the slots filed down markedly. I'm also thinking this kind of thing needs to be done by a luthier and not the music shop techs doing setups.

Have any of you measured and modded a Fender this way to lower action?

 

[RomanS]

Distance between the string and the fretboard is irrelevant - after all, different types of fretwire have different heights. What you need to measure is the distance between the string and the top/crown of the fret.
The easiest way is pressing the string down on the third fret (so it sits on top of the second fret, but not on the first one), and then check the gap between the underside of the string and the top of the first fret - the string should not contact the fretwire, but the gap should be minimal - like the thickness of a sheet of paper, not more...

 

[Peegoo]

When everything else is dialed in (neck relief and string action), the last thing to do is tweak the nut slots. Ideally, most guitars have a nut action that yields around .015" and .020" between the bottom of each string and the crown of the 1st fret.

 

[68Kustom68]

The easiest way is pressing the string down on the third fret (so it sits on top of the second fret, but not on the first one), and then check the gap between the underside of the string and the top of the first fret - the string should not contact the fretwire, but the gap should be minimal - like the thickness of a sheet of paper, not more...

If a leaf of standard printer paper is typically .003", here's what I measured from underside of 6th string to top of the first fret.

- '16 USA Tele Pro: .010"
- '22 USA Strat Pro II: .009"

Does this confirm or at least suggest the factory nut slot heights on my guitars are ... not minimal?

 

[68Kustom68]

Ideally, most guitars have a nut action that yields around .015" and .020" between the bottom of each string and the crown of the 1st fret.

'16 Tele Pro measures 0.29".

'22 Strat Pro II measures 0.28".

 

[RomanS]

Well, I can't comment on the numbers, I have never measured it - I just eyeball it: If there's a minimal gap, it's ok, the string just shouldn't lay on top of the first fret, while pressing it down at the third one.
I usually tap on the string right on top of the first fret, to see whether there is still a "click"...

 

[Joe-Bob]

RomanS is right. Fret the third fret and check the distance between the first fret and the string. It should be very small, but not touching.

 

[68Kustom68]

RomanS is right. Fret the third fret and check the distance between the first fret and the string. It should be very small, but not touching.

Well, there are the numbers I got. Are .010 and .009" very small? Those gaps are visible to the eye.

 

[tlw]

I set my nut slots up for the following clearances between the bottom of the string and the 1st fret: Low E - 0.020", A - 0.018", D - 0.016", G - 0.014", B - 0.012", High E - 0.010". I set the relief around 0.005" at the 9th fret. I set the string action for 5/64" on the low E and 4/64" on the high E at the 17th fret (the strings in between I set to match the fretboard radius). These are numbers I got from Dan Erlewine's setup book. YMMV.

 

[68Kustom68]

I set my nut slots up for the following clearances between the bottom of the string and the 1st fret: Low E - 0.020", A - 0.018", D - 0.016", G - 0.014", B - 0.012", High E - 0.010".

So, if you add in the extra height from my Tele, these are the clearances I have. Let me know if you'd lower these numbers:

E - .030"
A - .028"
D - .026"
G - .024"
B - .022"
E - .020"

I'm now wondering if this Tele I bought used and online might have had factory nut replaced by previous owner. The guitar was shipped to me with very high action, pickups jacked high, and heavy strings. Maybe a slide player?

 

[Brent Hutto]

So, if you add in the extra height from my Tele, these are the clearances I have. Let me know if you'd lower these numbers:

E - .030"
A - .028"
D - .026"
G - .024"
B - .022"
E - .020"

I'm now wondering if this Tele I bought used and online might have had factory nut replaced by previous owner. The guitar was shipped to me with very high action, pickups jacked high, and heavy strings. Maybe a slide player?

I've lost track of the details of how that's being measured but if those are measurements from the bottom of the string to the top of the 1st fret with the strings open (not fretted) those are very, very close to the measurments of my [edit] Ibanez RG421 when it came from the factory.

After playing the guitar for a few days I took it to the dealer's repair tech and had him lower [edit] a few slots slightly. I don't remember which strings. But once he'd done that and I had the rest of my setup dialed in, all my strings measured in that .020-.030" range with most of them in the low 20's.

That guitar is almost certainly NOT dialed in perfectly at the nut. I have an easily discernible gap between the strings and 1st fret when I fret at the 3rd. More than the ideal .002-.003", more like .005". So there's room from mine to go a couple thousands lower for sure. But it's better to be ever so slightly higher than optimum than to go too low. Too low means buzzing.

For me the main test of nut slot height is whether the strings go sharp when fretted at the 1st or 2nd fret. Unless you use a very, very light touch almost any guitar will be a cent or two sharp fretted at the 1st fret but if it's more than that your slots may be too high. Most guitars I've seen in stores, straight from the factory box, sound sour on if you fret a couple strings at the 1st and leave the other strings open. Mine does not, the slots are low enough it sounds fine like that.

P.S. I realized after typing the above that I was remembering my previous guitar (an Ibanez) rather than the Telecaster. That was the one with almost identical measurements (.020" to .030") as the OP's. So I've gone back and edited my post to have the correct guitar name.

For my 2022 MiM Player Telecaster here were the 1st fret actions when I brought it home from the dealer, presumably as set by the factory and with the action/relief nicely dialed in.

E - .016"
A - .021"
D - .020"
G - .015"
B - .014"
E - .019"

The adjustment I had the dealer make after a few days was to drop the high-E string down slightly. It is now around .014" same as the B string. All six strings come with a couple thousandths of the 1st fret when fretted at the 3rd.

Sorry for the confusing post! I think your guitar could likely benefit from having the slots slightly lower but they aren't miles off IMHO.

 

[Beebe]

I do it by feel, and with a tuner.

I try to get it so it doesn't go sharp when playing on the first fret.

I also hold the string down on the third fret and tap the string against the first fret. When it's too high, you can see a large space between the string and first fret and feel a tiny click when tapping. When it's right you almost can't feel the tap. ...if that makes sense.

I also save some bone dust to mix with ca glue and fill if I file too deep.

 

[Wallaby]

This sounds about right to me. I measured the 1st-fret gap ( when fretting at the 3rd ) on a guitar I thought had good nut action, and recall it being around .005". IIRC, which is not a given

Enough of a gap to barely feel with a tap, and to barely see with a backlight, basically.

All six strings come with a couple thousandths of the 1st fret when fretted at the 3rd.

 

[Hallski]

I've been using this gauge for a while as a reference and to set/check my nut height and I think it's pretty good standard for most guitars to fit within. Obviously, season to taste, but I like it easy and with a formula to follow. The Music Nomad stuff makes me have to think less, while learning more.

 

[Marc Morfei]

Distance between the string and the fretboard is irrelevant - after all, different types of fretwire have different heights. What you need to measure is the distance between the string and the top/crown of the fret.
The easiest way is pressing the string down on the third fret (so it sits on top of the second fret, but not on the first one), and then check the gap between the underside of the string and the top of the first fret - the string should not contact the fretwire, but the gap should be minimal - like the thickness of a sheet of paper, not more...

I'm no expert, but that's exactly how I do it too. The string should just barely clear the first fret. On every guitar I get, I find I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS need to lower the slots. Especially for the B and G it makes a big difference.

Over the years I got a pro setup from a good luthier a couple times. Both those guitars play perfectly. So I just look at the nut on those and tried to match it.

The topic of nut slots comes up every so often here. I cannot tell you the number of times guys have tried to tell me the importance of the dimension from the TOP of the nut to the BOTTOM of the slot. It has always seemed to me that is irrelevant. It would seem like the only thing that matters is the relationship between the BOTTOM of the slot to the TOP of the frets.

 

[68Kustom68]

. It would seem like the only thing that matters is the relationship between the BOTTOM of the slot to the TOP of the frets.

My understanding is that you don't want your strings buried in the material as this causes additional friction and binding. The slots are supposed to cover only enough of the strings to hold them in place when Pete windmills a chord!

 

[68Kustom68]

I try to get it so it doesn't go sharp when playing on the first fret.

You should see how high this Tele is at the first fret. Barre F chord is impossible to sound clearly. The bass F does indeed rise sharp. The string cannot even touch the fretboard even with capo mashing it down.

 

[68Kustom68]

For my 2022 MiM Player Telecaster here were the 1st fret actions when I brought it home from the dealer, presumably as set by the factory and with the action/relief nicely dialed in.

E - .016"
A - .021"
D - .020"
G - .015"
B - .014"
E - .019"

The adjustment I had the dealer make after a few days was to drop the high-E string down slightly. It is now around .014" same as the B string. All six strings come with a couple thousandths of the 1st fret when fretted at the 3rd.

Sorry for the confusing post! I think your guitar could likely benefit from having the slots slightly lower but they aren't miles off IMHO.

Wowwww ... and my 2022 USA Pro II shows .028" where your 2022 MiM Tele is .016". My 2016 USA Tele Pro shows .030".

There seems an ... error in Fender shipping and selling USA-made 'Pro' guitars with nut so high as to make the guitar a lemon.

I note too that Fender (or the dealer?) cranks its Strat bridges very far forward by loosening the springs. This will keep action artificially low and slinky.

I did not pay a huge amount for my used 2016 Tele, so I'll have the nut WELL adjusted ... but I'm dismayed how Fender ships domestic guitars with these defects.

 

[schmee]

Hi,

After getting a very nice setup with some snaggy frets fixed, the action on my new used Tele still sucks. Yes, relief and radius and saddle height and intonation all done correctly. Then I recalled the low-cost (but nice) J200 knock-off that I got as a gift years ago--the guitar whose nut and saddle I filed and sanded to get the action down to playable.

I looked at my Tele's nut. Like, it looks a lot of space there. An original Fender USA factory nut on a Tele Pro CANNOT have been cut THAT high. Never as high as a cheap overseas pseudo-J200 ... right? Right?

So, I measured the action on that pseudo-J200 and my Gibson 135 by using a feeler gauge between 6th string and fretboard right at the nut. Both around .030 to .035" from bottom of 6th string to fretboard. (The doctored J200 is lowest!)

Now, measured the 2016 USA Tele Pro. A whopping .065" between 6th string and fretboard at the nut. An index finger and even a capo at the first fret cannot depress that string to the fretboard. It behaves like an Yngwie scallop job! Next, I checked my off-the-rack 2022 Pro II Strat. A little north of .060".

My J200 overseas knockoff had originally .058" clearance which made an F barre almost impossible, I recall, which is why I filed and sanded it.

Is .060" to .065" the Fender standard spec? A nut on TWO US-made 'Pro' model electrics are cut well higher than a Chibson J200 acoustic--really?

No amount of neck relief or saddle adjustment is gonna help action when a nut is acting as a pylon bridge. I'm thinking the Tele and new Strat need the slots filed down markedly. I'm also thinking this kind of thing needs to be done by a luthier and not the music shop techs doing setups.

Have any of you measured and modded a Fender this way to lower action?

Measure the nut by capoing at fret 3, then press or measure from the string bottom to the fret top at fret #1. This distance can be almost zero and makes a huge difference in playability!

I set mine at .005-.010" on the low E and .005" or less on the high E.
I really just look for an almost imperceptible gap when I push the string down.

(Ref: .005" is about one thickness of printing paper) Few guitars come with the nut adjusted. I suppose because some people dont want it too low, but mostly because it would take time, $, and expertise. Guitar makers simple "assemble" now days. Even a custom neck will come without this being set low.

 

[charlie chitlin]

Fret a string at the first fret.
Note the margin by which it misses the 2nd fret.
That's all the daylight you need between the open string and the 1st fret.