OK, it's time for a DPP Tele.

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by TRexF16, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Barncaster and I have been e-mailing a bit on the side about what would be a natural and needed successor to Jupiter's amazing DPP 335. We're thinking it's time for a DPP Tele. Barncaster is going to collaborate as pickup builder as he did with Jup. I'll be doing the lutheri...I mean...wood butchery.
    I got the flake:
    IMG_8394.JPG
    I got the mentoring:
    http://www.tdpri.com/threads/the-emeraldcaster-project-aka-son-of-meloncaster.86203/

    I have some crazy lightweight Spanish cedar I have been wanting to use for something so I glued up a blank last weekend and planed it down and profiled it today.
    IMG_8390.JPG
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    The vision is a parchment pickguard and the current plan is a Fender Fat 50 Strat neck pickup with a wound-to-match special edition Barncaster Tele bridge pickup, with couple little surprises to be revealed at a later date. I started hogging out some waste to do the routs and realized I'd ignored my oft-provided advice to use a P90 rout for the neck pickup on any Tele that's getting a pickguard. I started laying out a Strat rout before realizing tonight in my mental debrief that I should just make it a P90 rout so we have growth capability to a P90, mini-hum/firebird, Tele, or Filtertron, just by changing the pickguard.
    Barncaster and I are both thinking that DPP/parchment color scheme will look best with a slightly amber maple neck, but I have a couple walnut necks in the making that are quite light. in their current state, both the uncarved walnut neck and the un routed Spanish cedar body, combined, weigh just a hair under 4 pounds. So I will finish this neck out too just in case we want to make an ultralight out of it.

    IMG_8393.JPG
    That is all so far, but I'll get a bit more done this weekend.

    I reckon it's on.

    Rex
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  2. TheZ

    TheZ Tele-Meister

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    This is going to be awesome!
     
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  3. Treadplatedual

    Treadplatedual Tele-Holic

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    lol...

    Amazing.
     
  4. Mat UK

    Mat UK Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Oh yes! DPP cannot be silenced!

    Looking forward to this... based on @Jupiter experience of DPP builds I assume I have a gajillion years to wait until it reaches completion ;)
     
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  5. erix

    erix Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    230C9B0E-3BEA-429E-9066-EA6CE935D511.gif
     
  6. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    This should be very interesting. Barncaster, please add info on the pickup winding, as I may be doing some of that in the near future for LP-Scrapper and Everything Tele. Thanks.
    Subscribed.
     
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  7. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    You guys can thank Rob for this thread - he said putting up a full build thread was one of the conditions for him make the pickup(s). One of the immediate considerations is the roundover radius. I made my first Tele with the vintage 1/8" roundover, and haven't used that one since [EDIT: I mean I have not used that radius since - love my #1 Tele still!]. I have used both 1/4" and 3/16" radii on all my subsequent Tele builds. The 1/4" feels nice but deviates enough from the vintage as to be visibly less vintage. These days for a straight clear or painted finish I have settled on 3/16" which seems the best of both worlds.
    But I am wondering if using the 1/4" radius might be better with this flake. Maybe the flake will "lie down" better and be easier to wet sand and polish with the bigger radius? Perhaps this is a trivial concern but it's a decision I need to make basically now since it's time to do that step.
    I just went and took a look at a couple of my different Teles and decided the 1/4" will not be too radical looking and think I'm going to go with that, but I probably won't get to it until tomorrow based on engagements we have today so I'm open to suggestions.
    Also, all my guitars since the first have been sprayed with a standard Harbor Freight purple spray gun, and that's worked fine. I get an extra once in a while when they go on sale for $9.99 so I have one available to sacrifice if needed. IIRC, these have a 1.5 nozzle and I think this flake is 1.5 too. [EDIT - I misremembered. The flake size is in inches and it's .015] Think that'll work? Based on how these guns are designed, can I just bore that out a touch? Looks like I have a full range of options between a #48 (1.93mm) and #52 (1.61mm) drill bit. Based on reading Buck-o-Caster's experiences I think I'd way rather spray the flake than try to shake it on to a wet lacquer base.
    OK, I gotta take the dogs out for a romp. I'll check back in later today. Thanks for the interest everyone.

    Cheers,
    Rex
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  8. 10orgtr

    10orgtr Tele-Meister

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    Hey Rex, the manufacturer of the flake should have a spec on what size nozzle is required. I'm with you on spraying it, I think it provides better adhesion between the individual flakes and even then, you'll be finding flake for years after. I flaked my Sportster 10 years ago and I still find the odd stray flake. I used catalyzed polyurethane from House of Kolor. I know all about the nitro bs, vintage and all that, but the thicker poly will bury your flake easier and you'll be able to sand and buff in a couple of days instead of months later. If you do poly, follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter, especially regarding flash and recoat times. The flake on my bike is under 4 coats of candy and 8 coats of clear. The number of clear coats is House of Kolor's recommendation for the best finish after buffing and it looks like you can swim in my paint.
    Cheers,
    Woody
     
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  9. Mr. Neutron

    Mr. Neutron Tele-Meister

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    The "latest rendition" of the Harbor Freight Purple guns supposedly have a 1.4mm tip/nozzle. Mine is stamped "1.4" on the business end (the spray nozzle) of it. If that's correct, and if they hold their sizes good when machining, it may not work with that tip, Rex. I did call Harbor Freight to see if I could order different tips and needles for the gun, and the Parts Guy from HF said none were avilable, even though they do have a list of different tip sets in the manual. I guess that part of the manual is simply a "recommendation" for selecting tips for spraying different materials. Pretty worthless when no other tip sizes are available, huh?

    I needed to spray some latex enamel paint on a little project (some tarp shed poles), and it's pretty "thick stuff". I just drilled the fluid nozzle out to 5/64" (about 2mm), and it worked out fine for that application. It's pretty much a dedicated "primer gun" now, I suppose. You may have to resort to that too for the flakes to pass......
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  10. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    Are you sure about having an edge round over as opposed to using binding around the edges to contrast the DPP finish?
    Subscribed
     
  11. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Boy was I misremembering a couple things when I typed that previous. First the flake size - it's in inches and it's .015. And the tips on the HF purple gun is labeled 1.5. I took the tip apart and the largest drill bit that will slip trough the opening is a #51 (.067") which actually = 1.7mm.
    IMG_8397.JPG
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    Roth (the flake maker) sells a gun for spraying flake and it's a 2.5mm:
    Roth Spray Guns.jpg
    But a search for "what tip size to spray .015 flake" yielded this site:
    http://www.custompaintforum.com/forum/showthread.php/3080-tip-size-for-015-(1-64th)-flake
    where they were talking 1.6 to 1.8 as good, and that is also corroborated by this site, which actually says 1.7 or less to shoot .015 flake.
    https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/02/23/monday-mailbag-tips-spraying-metal-flake-paint/
    Spray tip recommendations.jpg
    So it actually looks like I might be OK to just try it out as is first. I'll get in touch with Roth and see what they say about tip size.

    I'm guessing I want to thin the lacquer and use a good bit of retarder to let the flake flatten out as much as possible before the lacquer sets up (this is assuming I stay with lacquer, which is what I am familiar with).

    Cheers,
    Rex
     
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  12. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Well I sure need to make that decision now if I'm going to. I'm really leaning towards the roundover as I am afraid the nature of the flake might make it hard to get a really nice clean border on the binding.
     
  13. zorgzorg2

    zorgzorg2 Tele-Meister

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    Wow, you're going way too fast to compete with Jup ;)
     
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  14. Mr. Neutron

    Mr. Neutron Tele-Meister

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    Cool!

    And kinda "odd" that my HF Purple gun is stamped "1.4" and yours is "1.5", on the same basic spray gun? I guess I have "tip envy". :D

    And it's cool that it'll probably spray it just fine. :cool:
     
  15. 10orgtr

    10orgtr Tele-Meister

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    Just thin what ever you use to the manufacturer's recommendations and make sure whatever thinner you're using is appropriate for the temperature conditions the day you shoot it. With either lacquer or poly get as much documentation from the manufacturer on thinning and recoat times as possible. It would be a good idea to talk to a couple of auto body suppliers about what you're doing, hopefully you'll find one that will give you pointers like I did. It will be no end of help especially if you use poly, since like you, I was a lacquer kind of guy.
    I agree with your thoughts on a round over, I can see flakes chipping if you have to scrape the binding.
    Cheers,
    Woody
     
  16. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    Was pretty swamped on Saturday with social obligations, and pretty swamped on Sunday with recovery from same! But I spent a little time in the shop Sunday afternoon and tonight after work.
    I spent some time eyeballing my 3/16" radius roundover bit and decided it'll be fine for .015" flake to lie flat, so I went with that. I also did all the plunge routing except for the neck pocket, which I'll try to get tomorrow so I can get some sanding sealer on this baby.

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    I got the three necks in my neck queue profiled over the weekend and they are stacked on a neck pile like a little Oreo cookie - two walnuts with a creamy maple filling.
    IMG_8408.JPG
    Those three all get traditional one-piece rods so I'll probably do all the jobs on them at once - a lot of economy of effort there. Gotta make the rods too. I had cut out the maple one to use for my as yet unbegun Micawber project (another personal build in the queue) but could use it on anything (like the DPP tele) - I have plenty of 6/4 hard maple to make more necks with. Maybe I should profile a couple more just to get them done?

    I'm really looking forward to getting this DPP body sealed and leveled. Question - what color should I use as a base for the DPP flake? I am leaning towards either nothing - just shoot it over the sanding sealer, or white, or maybe a pink. I don't think I want to do black or anything dark, but I am new to the whole flake thing. Open to suggestions

    Cheers,
    Rex
     
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  17. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted

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    image.jpg 7CF7684A-3199-4676-A79B-7D7AC9895159.jpeg I have been messing with metal flake the last couple of weeks and there is def a learning curve. I have been adding flake to intercoat and then spraying 2k clear over it.
    What I have figured out is that with a gravity gun(hf purple style) you have to be careful of the flake settling down and clogging the gun.
    Next, I found that turning my pressure up to 40 at the gauge with the trigger pulled and opening the fluid and fan up completely worked much better for me.

    Lastly, just this weekend I decided to build my own flake buster. I used about a foot to plastic tubing, a needle to blow up a basketball, and my spray everything off attachment thing.
    Cut a hole in the lid of the flake for the tube and another air hole. Insert tube, insert needle into tube about 2 inches from end and turn the pressure way down.
    I need to set up a flake retrieval system as it is def wasteful until I get it dialed in.
    Here is a picture of my very rudimentary flake buster.

    You can also order a spray gun with a larger nozzle on amazon for around 20-25 bucks.
    2.0 would be fine for .15 flake.
    Oh and all praise to the father of flake buckocaster for the inspiration.

    Can’t wait to see how yours turns out.
     
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  18. Telemarx

    Telemarx Tele-Meister

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    Great stuff, and thanks for sharing! All those years waiting for Jupes reveal I was picturing the colour as, well, you know. Instead it turned out to look like a beautiful picture of some far flung corner of the cosmos. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing how yours turn out.
     
  19. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    Huzzah another DPP epic! When do the monkeys get here?

    That totally sounds like the Monty Python cheese shop!
     
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  20. ajr969

    ajr969 Tele-Meister

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    For the base coat color, I’d like to see how different the DPP looks over a white or light colored base, compared to Jup’s 335 with it over a the black base.

    The answer may be buried somewhere in Jup’s 335 thread, but the photos of his appear to have a bit of holo flake mixed in... Does the Roth DPP come out of the jar that way or did he add a pinch of holo to his? Of the two flaked guitars I’ve done, I added a pinch of holo to one of them, and it seems to help the flake jump out even more.
     
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