Oh why, oh why, is the Princeton Reverb so difficult to make work…

[tugboat1980]

That Jim Campilongo can play his @$$ off!

And he uses a celestion 10” speaker in his princetons. Maaaaaay be the 10” version of the Vintage 30 but I’m not positive.

Many Nashville guys also swap the stock Jensen speakers for Vintage 30’s on their deluxe reverbs for better midrange.

 

[11 Gauge]

And he uses a celestion 10” speaker in his princetons. Maaaaaay be the 10” version of the Vintage 30 but I’m not positive.

Many Nashville guys also swap the stock Jensen speakers for Vintage 30’s on their deluxe reverbs for better midrange.

Per Celestion's web page:

"A worthy successor to the Vintage 10 the G10 Vintage is a 10 speaker with bags of attitude. Using powerful ceramic magnets and the same voice coil design as the Vintage 30 the G10 packs an impressive punch with its 60W power handling.With the fast response of a 10 but with the strong and creamy vocal tones of a 12 the G10 is the ideal choice to add depth to hollow- sounding amps or for players who want to get humbucker-type girth from single-coils. Can be used singly to add vocal warmth to small valve combos or in quartets for a weightier but still lively attack."

 

[tugboat1980]

Per Celestion's web page:

"A worthy successor to the Vintage 10 the G10 Vintage is a 10 speaker with bags of attitude. Using powerful ceramic magnets and the same voice coil design as the Vintage 30 the G10 packs an impressive punch with its 60W power handling.With the fast response of a 10 but with the strong and creamy vocal tones of a 12 the G10 is the ideal choice to add depth to hollow- sounding amps or for players who want to get humbucker-type girth from single-coils. Can be used singly to add vocal warmth to small valve combos or in quartets for a weightier but still lively attack."

That’s the one!

 

[1955]

I have an efficient Celestion in mine, beautiful sounding amp for low volume clean playing. I really lucked out because a Fender blackface guru built it. The tremolo and reverb are the best I’ve heard. I’ve got it in a larger cabinet with a big tank.

That amp has delivered for many years. I have it in my bedroom and still play it often. Just a gorgeous sounding amp. I consider the man who built it an expert on those circuits. Some people just know what to do to get the most out of everything.

For comparison, I tried out one of the reissues several years ago in a guitar store and I like mine much better. For a small and portable amp, it is really practical. I don’t like it pushed as much since I mostly play clean, but I have used OD pedals and it does very well with them.

FWIW, I also love the Champ as well.

The cab size and speaker choice with that circuit can dramatically change the character and volume.

 

[KirkDahnke]

A Princeton with a Jensen P10R is the tonal opposite to a Tweed Champ. The Jensen can sound thin and harsh. You should try a speaker with a 'warmer' sound (more mids).
Some swear by the Eminence Cannabis Rex. Or you could try a Celestion Vintage speaker.

I had a Cannabis Rex. I hated it. Go Celestion Creamback. Even Keith uses them in his Tweed Amps.

 

[KirkDahnke]

The higher you dial the Treble and Bass controls, the more midrange scooped the sound gets. Start with Treble and Bass at 1 and see if you like it.

Another cheap suggestion is an EQ pedal. I use the Joyo JF-11 that costs less than 40 € to 'refine' my guitar sound.

An EQ pedal with a level or volume slider can also function somewhat like an attenuator.

 

[ScottTunes]

When I had the power cable/cord updated to 3 prong in my '66 Princeton (non-verb), I had the ground switch "repurposed" to engage/disengage the Negative Feedback Loop. It loosens up the sound, more towards the tweed sound, but also makes it a bit louder. With the NF loop engaged, it's VERY CLEAN! And at full volume too! But, it also has the original vintage Chicago Jensen C10NS in it. Loud and clean. It easily as loud as my '64 Deluxe Rev, and also cleaner! LOL! The DR has the C12NA in it, which came from a '66 Bassman cab...

I like the Eminence Legend speakers too, and use the 1258 in my '61 Vibrolux amp, and a '66 Bandmaster-turned-combo amp. Sounds good, and "appropriate" in all of them (had the 1258 in the DR for a while).

I'd recommend the Eminence Legend 1058 for your (OP's) DRRI, except it leans more toward the loud and clean Fender sound, which I prefer. The Eminence Alessandro GA10 SC64 provides a little less output than the 1058, and would be a better choice for you.

Actually, messing with the controls (Treble/Bass) is the easy/cheap "fix" for this situation. Turning UP the bass will provide more distortion, in my experience. Experimentation is he way forward.

I had a Princeton when I was a kid. It was a GREAT rock machine when cranked! I'm fairly it had the C10R (Chicago Jensen) in it though. Wish I'd kept that amp!! But, the one I have now is a gem, too!

 

[maxvintage]

It’s the huge mid scoop at 800 hz or so. You can’t really dial it out. It can sound really interesting and pretty on its own, but it’s often too thin sounding and if you turn down the treble it just sounds muddy

Look here and you can see how it works

TSC in the web

I’m pretty sure that with a deluxe or twin reverb you can get get to a flat eq by turning treble and bass down and the mid all the way up, but not with a princeton

The entire reason for the popularity of tube screamers is they added mids to blackface and silverface amps

 

[11 Gauge]

It’s the huge mid scoop at 800 hz or so. You can’t really dial it out. It can sound really interesting and pretty on its own, but it’s often too thin sounding and if you turn down the treble it just sounds muddy

Look here and you can see how it works

TSC in the web

I’m pretty sure that with a deluxe or twin reverb you can get get to a flat eq by turning treble and bass down and the mid all the way up, but not with a princeton

The entire reason for the popularity of tube screamers is they added mids to blackface and silverface amps

Yeah, and it's a problem not just for the PR but also the rest of the BF/SF line, maybe with the exclusion of the SR or TR, which have the midrange control.

Having said that, this problem seems to get worse once you drop down to the DR or lower, because the power amp isn't up to the task of pushing a lot of bass cleanly, which it would have to do, due to the mid scoop.

I have a '67 Champ, and IMO it's just ridiculous trying to find a sweet spot with the treble and bass as the volume is increased.

But you pinpointed it - the main reason for these issues has to do with the tone stack, and then trying to compensate with a speaker that works within the mid-scooped limitations.

Edited to add - I almost feel like it might be worthwhile to replace the pots in a PR to add pull switches to them, which would change values at the tone stack. You could make the slope resistor smaller, the midrange resistor bigger, and the bass and mid caps smaller. You could also make the treble cap bigger. Another idea would be to add a 'raw' switch, which would basically bypass most of the tone stack altogether. By putting this all on switches, the amp would remain stock as long as none of the pots were pulled. You would then have a PR that would basically work for different scenarios - lower volume cleans where the stock mid scoop is okay, or higher volume with less clean, but minus the overwhelming bass and shrill treble.

...I fully understand that some folks are totally opposed to mods, but what I'm suggesting above isn't really anything that would hardwire in changes that would eliminate the stock PR in any way. It would also be not too difficult to return it to stock if needed. Really the only assumption here is that it would be done to a PR that doesn't have PCB construction, because it would be way easier to add this stuff to an eyelet board PR.

 

[RandomKaren]

The only downside is that the P10r was glued really tightly to the baffle (why would Fender do that knowing their customers have a tendency to change speakers so often) so I’ve wrecked the paper gasket. If anyone in the UK knows where I can buy a new gasket/what I should get, I’d appreciate the advice

Any 10" gasket should work, but try Hot Rox who seem to be the main UK dealer for Jensen, or Blue Aran for spares. Or even Jensen in Italy.

 

[Highway 49]

Any 10" gasket should work, but try Hot Rox who seem to be the main UK dealer for Jensen, or Blue Aran for spares. Or even Jensen in Italy.

Thank you, I'll check those out

 

[DHart]

QUESTION for you folks with good PR experience. I like a clean tone style, some reverb, and some compression with a Keeley Compressor, which has a level control on it, so it can provide a potent level boost, in addition to compression. (I avoid overdrive pedals as they all just sound too fizzy/fuzzy/artificial to my ears.)

How does a PR sound at moderate home studio volumes (perhaps around 3 or 4?) with a Compressor or clean boost pedal pushing the amp fairly hard? Any sag or natural tube edge-of-breakup? Nice sound, without getting too loud in a small room (not a band setting)?

For reference, I'm presently using (and absolutely loving) a Morgan MVP23 driving a 12" Creamback that gets these amazing tones in spades, at any volume level (it has 23 watts down to 1/4 watt with gain, master, and continuous power scaling). Between the humbuckers and the Compressor gain, I can effortlessly push this amp into glorious tube harmonic overtones/break up at very moderate volume levels. I am running EL844 power tubes which will break up a little bit easier than EL84s.

I know the PR is not designed to do what the Morgan does, but I'm considering building a PR kit simply because I'd like to build an amp kit and I love Fender cleans. So I'm just curious about how well/nicely the PR can be pushed with a boosted signal, for some edge of breakup, without getting into overly loud volume levels?

I've only played a PR once and remember loving the Fender cleans I got with it, but I didn't try it with compression or a clean boost.

 

[Highway 49]

Any sag or natural tube edge-of-breakup

I'm not getting that with my Princeton Reverb and Telecaster at 3-4 on the dial, but I think different people will have different experiences, depending on the speaker/guitar/playing style etc. - I think because I'm always playing at home at the point where it's really a bit too loud, I tend to back off/not dig in too much so that probably has an impact

 

[DHart]

I'm not getting that with my Princeton Reverb and Telecaster at 3-4 on the dial, but I think different people will have different experiences, depending on the speaker/guitar/playing style etc. - I think because I'm always playing at home at the point where it's really a bit too loud, I tend to back off/not dig in too much so that probably has an impact

Are you using some boost before the signal hits the amp?

 

[KirkDahnke]

An EQ pedal with a level or volume slider can also function somewhat like an attenuator.

I have a Behringer clone of the BOSS GE-7. It's fine, but a real BOSS is what you really want. Not bad used, and you see them constantly on pro boards. Buy nice or buy twice. If you are touring or can afford it, get a real BOSS. I'm a bedroom player and can't justify paying for expensive pedals anymore. I just have No One Cares Pedals on Facebook or Instagram, make me clones. Handmade and very high quality. I have 9 and they are all awesome. Plus, you can choose your graphics. Tell him Kirk sent you so we both get a hookup. Lol. This is my latest pedal. A clone of the Les Lius pedal that nails the Tweed Twin and the Tweed Fender Deluxe or a stack of both. It turns a normal Fender into the best you've heard. Called "Keith in a box" or "Neil Young in a box," but can do so much more. It sounds great going into a Fender-style amp. It will be very affordable and instantly fix your issues. Here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/nocpedals




.

 

[SnorkelMonkey]

Many Nashville guys also swap the stock Jensen speakers for Vintage 30’s on their deluxe reverbs for better midrange.

Another Nashville session cat trick is to use an EQ pedal. Best of bother worlds, don't let the secret out!

 

[Highway 49]

Are you using some boost before the signal hits the amp?

I’ve started using a GE-7 which helps

 

[DHart]

I’ve started using a GE-7 which helps

If you hit the amp a bit harder, like with some boost from the GE-7, does that give a little more pleasing tone at low levels, like from around 2 or 3?

 

[Highway 49]

If you hit the amp a bit harder, like with some boost from the GE-7, does that give a little more pleasing tone at low levels, like from around 2 or 3?

Yes, it works really well for that

 

[SnorkelMonkey]

I’m pretty sure that with a deluxe or twin reverb you can get get to a flat eq by turning treble and bass down and the mid all the way up, but not with a princeton

I just glanced over at my BF Deluxe Reverb and it seems to be severely missing that mid option. Would be cool though. Seriously cool.