Oh why, oh why, is the Princeton Reverb so difficult to make work…

[dukewellington]

The Jensen that’s in the OP’s amp is really its own sound. Maybe because I used one for so long but I can hear one a mile away. If a player doesn’t like that tone he’ll never like the amp.

Turn it down and it’s gorgeous cleans and sparkly scoopy reverb goodness… but the real joy of my PR (80 or 81, supposedly) is that its mid section gets all rumbly when it gets loud, like if Scrappy Doo was trying to be a Deluxe Reverb. Maybe find a different speaker. They’re pretty forgiving amplifiers, if the lack of headroom does make them something like a two-trick dog.

I agree, also, roll the reverb, treble and bass controls down if you’re turning the volume control up. Once up to performance volume, mix back in to taste. 4 and 6 on the Princetons tone dials don’t sound like the same things when the volumes on 3 as when it’s on 6.

 

[Highway 49]

Another cheap suggestion is an EQ pedal

Thanks, I’ve been thinking about an eq pedal - I like to play my acoustic through the guitar amp so a bit of eq help would be useful there too

 

[Highway 49]

the real joy of my PR (80 or 81, supposedly) is that its mid section gets all rumbly when it gets loud, like if Scrappy Doo was trying to be a Deluxe Reverb.

That’s a great description of what I’m after

 

[Jared Purdy]

Thanks, that’s exactly the sound I like - what I think of as Fender black panel, but also fat and fuzzy in a good way - obvs. he’s playing loud and he’s playing brilliantly (I’ve not got a particularly good touch, although I’m always working on it and live in hope).

Jensen P10R - I think that’s possibly not helping, particularly with the Tele bridge pickup.

Which one? I tried the Ironman Mini II - kind of big and overly complicated, I thought - I might try again if I can get something simple, that doesn’t add a load more variables in.

64 handwired. I’ve thought about the GA10SC64, and might give it a go

I've had several PR's. Two 65 PRRI's, one stock 74 silverface and the 64, which is what I have now. I changed the speaker in all of them. I tried a couple of different ones in the first 65 I had. One was a Celestion Gold. That was an expensive waste of time and money.

After I bought the 64, I posted a question on this forum regarding a good speaker swap, and @Wally chimed in and mentioned the Eminence. I had never heard of it. Luckily, as Eminence is a big company, I was able to order the GA10SC64 locally. Before I did that, I called George Alessandro, and he actually answered the phone in his shop. I wanted to know the history behind the speaker and his work with Eminence. He told me, and he also gave me his time working with Jensen. He went over to Eminence.

I have found, as just about every review I have ever read about any of the Jensen's in the PR (they're either the C10 or P10) has corroborated, that the highs are ice picky shrill and the lows are terrible when the volume goes up. The speaker can not hold it together (I believe the P10 is the one in the 64). I took a chance on the Eminence, and that quest is over. I've had it in my 64 for almost five years now. Nuff said. I can crank the volume on that amp with the bass and treble at 5 and crank my Les Paul and that speaker sounds glorious. It makes the PR useable across a whole range of volumes, and tones. Happy picking!!

 

[burntfrijoles]

Which one? I tried the Ironman Mini II - kind of big and overly complicated, I thought - I might try again if I can get something simple, that doesn’t add a load more variables in.

The same: Ironman Mini II. It is big but I don't find it overly complicated. It just has a lot of levels of attenuation and the presence adjustment. I have my favorite level of attenuation when I am playing normally and a much more attenuated setting for nighttime use. Plus the presence adjustment helps when switching from single coils to humbuckers.

 

[Marc Morfei]

If you want an amp that sounds like a Princeton Reverb, there is no better amp. But if that's not what you're looking for, there are plenty of other options. I went back and forth on PRs multiple times. Once I figured out how to actually use it (see many good earlier comments), I realized it was not the best amp for me anyway.

 

[Wildeman]

Sell it, get a Deluxe.

 

[Highway 49]

I've had several PR's. Two 65 PRRI's, one stock 74 silverface and the 64, which is what I have now. I changed the speaker in all of them. I tried a couple of different ones in the first 65 I had. One was a Celestion Gold. That was an expensive waste of time and money.

After I bought the 64, I posted a question on this forum regarding a good speaker swap, and @Wally chimed in and mentioned the Eminence. I had never heard of it. Luckily, as Eminence is a big company, I was able to order the GA10SC64 locally. Before I did that, I called George Alessandro, and he actually answered the phone in his shop. I wanted to know the history behind the speaker and his work with Eminence. He told me, and he also gave me his time working with Jensen. He went over to Eminence.

I have found, as just about every review I have ever read about any of the Jensen's in the PR (they're either the C10 or P10) has corroborated, that the highs are ice picky shrill and the lows are terrible when the volume goes up. The speaker can not hold it together (I believe the P10 is the one in the 64). I took a chance on the Eminence, and that quest is over. I've had it in my 64 for almost five years now. Nuff said. I can crank the volume on that amp with the bass and treble at 5 and crank my Les Paul and that speaker sounds glorious. It makes the PR useable across a whole range of volumes, and tones. Happy picking!!

Thanks very much, I’ve seen your posts on the Eminence GA10SC64 before. In the UK, there only appears to be one stockist, and they come in at about £100. I’m tempted to give it a go. Mine is the 64 reissue with the P10R, and it looks like it should be a pretty straightforward swap.
I’ve actually been enjoying my PR this morning - with the amp volume quite low (2.5) and the guitar volume quite high, and playing a little more assertively, it actually sounds more rackety (in a good way) in a small room than when it’s too loud and it takes up all the space.
I think the lesson is to try to work with what I have as far as possible. I do love many things about it - the portability, simplicity, low wattage, the built in reverb and tremolo, the looks… just got to remember it’s not something it isn’t. A speaker swap rather than pedals, attenuator, different guitar, seems worth a try….

 

[noname_dragon]

Wow. I come from the far other end of the spectrum. I put a GA12 sc64 in my '67 PR for loud clean sounds in my loud-ish country band, and use great pedals ( SexDrive, Marshall Bluesbreaker, Barber Gain Changer, Boss GE7 etc) for boosted and distorted sounds. Tonfarb is correct about turning T and B controls down for the most mids. My partner who uses a DR says my PR is the loudest one he's ever heard. If I want to start out distorted I'll use my 5E3.

 

[Highway 49]

Wow. I come from the far other end of the spectrum. I put a GA12 sc64 in my '67 PR for loud clean sounds in my loud-ish country band, and use great pedals ( SexDrive, Marshall Bluesbreaker, Barber Gain Changer, Boss GE7 etc) for boosted and distorted sounds. Tonfarb is correct about turning T and B controls down for the most mids. My partner who uses a DR says my PR is the loudest one he's ever heard. If I want to start out distorted I'll use my 5E3.

Thanks, it’s certainly true that ‘loud’ and ‘clean’ are the opposite of what I’m looking for… maybe I need to think a little before acting

 

[archetype]

The Jensen that’s in the OP’s amp is really its own sound. Maybe because I used one for so long but I can hear one a mile away. If a player doesn’t like that tone he’ll never like the amp.

Turn it down and it’s gorgeous cleans and sparkly scoopy reverb goodness… but the real joy of my PR (80 or 81, supposedly) is that its mid section gets all rumbly when it gets loud, like if Scrappy Doo was trying to be a Deluxe Reverb. Maybe find a different speaker. They’re pretty forgiving amplifiers, if the lack of headroom does make them something like a two-trick dog.

I agree, also, roll the reverb, treble and bass controls down if you’re turning the volume control up. Once up to performance volume, mix back in to taste. 4 and 6 on the Princetons tone dials don’t sound like the same things when the volumes on 3 as when it’s on 6.

Thanks for stating a point that a lot of PR owners miss. With the PR circuit, the EQ needs to be reevaluated and adjusted to taste if you twist the volume knob in either direction.

 

[11 Gauge]

Thanks, I was sitting here thinking just that. I’ve avoided Celestion since disliking the 10-30 when I had a Bassbreaker but that could have been the amp/tiny cab. Time to take a proper look.

Just FYI, Jim Campilongo uses the Celestion G10 in many of his PRs.

Aside from that, he has a preference for 60's C10Ns, but doesn't like what they now cost.

Link to Jim's gear: https://www.jimcampilongo.com/gear.html

Personally, even though I don't have a PR, I would also go with the GA10-SC64. I have a pair of them in my '71 VR, and they essentially ended my 10" speaker quest, with that amp. I must have tried at least a dozen different 10s, including a bunch of other speakers by Eminence.

I also am personally of the opinion that I just don't like alnico speakers in these little low watt amps, especially anything BF/SF that has the scooped mids thing going on. They may work at low volumes with no dirt pedals engaged, but that's about it. IME, just really tricky to dial in.

 

[Wally]

*personal view only - I’m no expert *
I mean compared to my tweed Champ, which is so perfect for Teles and Strats, and which takes pedals so well, and is always loud enough (maybe with an E609), but is never too loud, and always sounds like rock and roll.
At low volume the Princeton Reverb sounds pretty enough but you’re never going to get it to wake up until it’s quite loud, and then it’s really hard sounding, or really thin-sounding. We’re either too harsh or too dull.
Sometimes - I mean just sometimes - it’s just so sweet and then it’s great, but most of the time it isn’t and I’m fighting it.
I’ve tried overdrive pedals (and not been convinced), and an attenuator (the result is like what you’d get from a very expensive, very big, not very good-sounding overdrive pedal). I haven’t tried a speaker swap.
It’s time to either say goodbye (truth is I’m not a clean player and don’t want to be) or get a different guitar… something with P90s that would give it a bit more of a push maybe but, no, I’m not going down that road, tempting as that SG Special would be.
Anyway, this post is going nowhere - what’s the lesson: make what you’ve got work (so much time already invested, and it should be possible to make it be as punk as you like), or walk away and move on… truth is, Deluxe Reverbs, Pro Reverbs, and Twin Reverbs have always been the amps to make me sit up, so perhaps a mistake to think the Princeton Reverb might be similar, but smaller.
Just thinking out loud, really, but I can’t think of a situation where a Princeton Reverb is really rattling. Please do post if you have any great rock and roll examples.
*long post - sorry*

Fwiw, that Prin Rev preamp and negative feedback circuit can be modded to yield a hotter signal with more midrange…. Moving toward that tweed thing.

 

[68goldtop]

Hi!

I'm a big fan of the Princeton Reverb and I've used it as my main amp in our ROCK-band for a couple of years.
Ultimately I upgraded to a Deluxe (for obvious reasons), but I still had a lot of fun - and good sounds - with my PR!

Like the other guys said - there's a lot to be considered getting the best out of a PR, even though it's such a simple amp...

I find the EQ-thing very interesting!
Like, if you want/need more mids, you turn down the treble + bass and UP the volume - check it out, and see what it does for you!

There´s another nice tip I recently found!
Turn up the amp to 10, the treble up to 8-10 as well, and turn the bass down to (near) zero. Adjust from there - but this will get you in the ballpark of some really rockin´sounds

I agree that the Jensen P10R or C10R Reissues are rather bright sounding speakers, and they may not suit everyone...
The original speakers in the PR were an Oxford 10K5 or Jensen C10NS - both of which had more mids and less highs than the current Jensen-RIs.


As for attenuators...

Which one? I tried the Ironman Mini II - kind of big and overly complicated, I thought - I might try again if I can get something simple, that doesn’t add a load more variables in...

I have two of these:

Stami's Customs - Raven 8 Ohm 65 Watt Speaker Attenuator for Tube Amps | eBay.de

Now, to move on from my sales pitch, let's talk reality. This is a PASSIVE / Non-Reactive speaker attenuator! That being said, ANY passive speaker attenuator will never sound and feel as good as an active attenuator with a reactive load (i.e. ).

www.ebay.de

They're VERY simple, they work just fine, they're reasonably priced, and the seller is very up-front about what they do, and what they won´t do.
I would buy one again!
Seems like he doesn´t offer these on the bay anymore, but you'll easily find him on the web

Cheers - 68.



P.S.:

Here´s a (rather wild) live-recording of our band with the Princeton Reverb (w/Jensen RI C10Q):

 

[Jared Purdy]

Thanks very much, I’ve seen your posts on the Eminence GA10SC64 before. In the UK, there only appears to be one stockist, and they come in at about £100. I’m tempted to give it a go. Mine is the 64 reissue with the P10R, and it looks like it should be a pretty straightforward swap.
I’ve actually been enjoying my PR this morning - with the amp volume quite low (2.5) and the guitar volume quite high, and playing a little more assertively, it actually sounds more rackety (in a good way) in a small room than when it’s too loud and it takes up all the space.
I think the lesson is to try to work with what I have as far as possible. I do love many things about it - the portability, simplicity, low wattage, the built in reverb and tremolo, the looks… just got to remember it’s not something it isn’t. A speaker swap rather than pedals, attenuator, different guitar, seems worth a try….

I leave the controls on the amp the same all the time. Volume, treble and bass on 5. From there, I use the controls on the guitar. With a Les Paul, that thing gets very loud when the volume on the guitar is dime'd. It rattles things in the house! It's not as loud with a Tele or a Strat, but it is still plenty loud, and the speaker holds together very well, with a very nice OD sound. Mind you, I don't do that very often. Not too good for the hearing!

 

[schmee]

Thanks, that’s exactly the sound I like - what I think of as Fender black panel, but also fat and fuzzy in a good way - obvs. he’s playing loud and he’s playing brilliantly (I’ve not got a particularly good touch, although I’m always working on it and live in hope).

Jensen P10R - I think that’s possibly not helping, particularly with the Tele bridge pickup.

Which one? I tried the Ironman Mini II - kind of big and overly complicated, I thought - I might try again if I can get something simple, that doesn’t add a load more variables in.

64 handwired. I’ve thought about the GA10SC64, and might give it a go

Oh yeah, P10R is a thin weak sounding speaker. Great in quads but as a single not good at all to my ears. Except maybe cranked for leads. Combined with a Tele bridge pickup and......... "Yuck!"

A Weber 10F150T is dreamy but makes the amp loud.
The GA SC64 x 10" is reported to have a very nice voice, I love the 12" but the 10" does not copy the 12" build details..
A robust sounding Emi 10" might be nice.

 

[bottlenecker]

Just FYI, Jim Campilongo uses the Celestion G10 in many of his PRs.

I just listened to Jim mention the G10 on the Truth About Vintage Amps podcast, and I wondered which G10 he meant. Greenbacks are called G10, and so are a 60w G10 with a silver magnet. Do you know which is in his amps?

 

[dukewellington]

I've had several PR's. Two 65 PRRI's, one stock 74 silverface and the 64, which is what I have now. I changed the speaker in all of them. I tried a couple of different ones in the first 65 I had. One was a Celestion Gold. That was an expensive waste of time and money.

After I bought the 64, I posted a question on this forum regarding a good speaker swap, and @Wally chimed in and mentioned the Eminence. I had never heard of it. Luckily, as Eminence is a big company, I was able to order the GA10SC64 locally. Before I did that, I called George Alessandro, and he actually answered the phone in his shop. I wanted to know the history behind the speaker and his work with Eminence. He told me, and he also gave me his time working with Jensen. He went over to Eminence.

I have found, as just about every review I have ever read about any of the Jensen's in the PR (they're either the C10 or P10) has corroborated, that the highs are ice picky shrill and the lows are terrible when the volume goes up. The speaker can not hold it together (I believe the P10 is the one in the 64). I took a chance on the Eminence, and that quest is over. I've had it in my 64 for almost five years now. Nuff said. I can crank the volume on that amp with the bass and treble at 5 and crank my Les Paul and that speaker sounds glorious. It makes the PR useable across a whole range of volumes, and tones. Happy picking!!

That’s a good description of the Jensen, which is a very good speaker by itself but requires some workaround with tone shaping. Full volume break in helps. I’ve found that the reverb makes any ice pick problems much worse too. I also play half rounds a lot, and that helps with shrill off-sounds also.

Another question for the OP is has he tried using the tone knob on any of his guitars? That’s the magic button for a lot of problems.

 

[11 Gauge]

I just listened to Jim mention the G10 on the Truth About Vintage Amps podcast, and I wondered which G10 he meant. Greenbacks are called G10, and so are a 60w G10 with a silver magnet. Do you know which is in his amps?

It's the G10 'Vintage' model. Here's a pic of it in Jim's PR:

Celestion G10 Vintage

 

[Esquire Jones]

I enjoy my Sweetwater PRRI with a 12” Allesandro.

But it felt like I was fighting with the amp when I would use an OCD pedal or tube screamer or something similar.

Once again, the lowly RAT pedal came to the rescue. I found it to be perfectly paired with the Princeton.

I definitely lean towards the Marshall vibe but can rock the PRRI in a different way.

Rat pedal realities.