Observation about Black Dog timing...

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Colo Springs E, Oct 18, 2020 at 3:09 PM.

  1. Colo Springs E

    Colo Springs E Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I guess it's not really timing--it has to do with when the band comes in after each of Plant's acapella sections.

    Note how they come in at about the 12 second mark.... Then compare that to how they come in at the 1:09 mark and at 1:20--both of these his voice has barely decayed when they come in with the main riff. Whereas going back to that 12 second mark, it's almost a half second delay.



    My assumption is this wasn't done up "live" in the studio, so it seems certain it was intentionally done this way, versus synchronized sloppiness.

    Wonder why Page did it this way?
     
  2. Allan Allan

    Allan Allan Tele-Holic

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    I think Plant sang, Bonzo clicked and they came in. The first one has a little extra rest, but it sounded good enough so they kept it.

    It used to be if it sounded good enough it was good enough. Now we listen with our eyes to make sure all the notes line up with the grids.
     
  3. Colo Springs E

    Colo Springs E Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Black Dog was never one of my favorite LZ songs, but I was playing along with it this morning, and it was fun!
     
  4. beanluc

    beanluc TDPRI Member

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    Actually I think it's all Plant.

    Listen for the start of each of his acapella sections. He comes in on a different beat or half-beat in those different sections. Sounds to me like Bonham, Jones and Page are counting while Plant may or may not be.
     
  5. xtelesquirex

    xtelesquirex Tele-Meister

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    That's what it looks like in the transcription. Whether or not it was written that way or intentional is another question.
     
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  6. ieatlions

    ieatlions Tele-Holic

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    The whole thing sounds like it was done ‘on the nod’ to me. More about the feel than perfecting it. The track is just pure rock energy. Love it.
     
  7. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Some very strange drumming that for sure.
     
  8. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Holic

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    The vocal may have been patched, or re-recorded later, but I'm sure the start of the backing track was done live in the studio with the four of them. In Light and Shade, Brad Tolinski's compendium of Guitar World interviews with Page, Tolinski writes:
    I'm sure they picked the best take of the drums at Headley Grange, or edited together the best takes, and then built Page's final guitar tracks, the keeper vocal, and possibly patched or re-did JPJ's bass track at Island.
     
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  9. gmm52

    gmm52 Tele-Meister

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    I don't get the click track thing, at all. The best music pushes and pulls, it breathes. I'd love to see a grid imposed over some Hendrix live. Death to all metronomes.
     
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  10. Mad Kiwi

    Mad Kiwi Friend of Leo's

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    Agree with you 100%.

    Presumably, you have seen this

     
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  11. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't think anybody was counting...
     
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  12. doghouseman

    doghouseman Tele-Meister

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    in your head man....
    it doesnt say click track. I dont think they used click tracks in the late 60s. It says he counted in on each break using his sticks.
    ----
    you can actually hear Bonzo counting us in by clicking his sticks together
     
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  13. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yup, I agree. This sounds more like the tight band with a loose Plant and perhaps this is part of what gives this song such great "live" energy.
     
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  14. regularslinky

    regularslinky Tele-Afflicted

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    This. Listen on headphones. You can hear the last click almost every time just before the band kicks in, and in a few spots you can hear other clicks as well. Sounds to me like they recorded the music with JB counting Out the odd-metered spaces for RPs vocals, then they had RP lay the vocal track, then they went back and tried to erase the clicks, But missed a few.
     
  15. cravenmonket

    cravenmonket Tele-Holic

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    I have always found the timing on this track magical and impossible. JP seems to just decide to play with very sloppy timing and extra bars and let the time signature go to hell.

    The most intriguing part for me begins at 00:35. Page plays the riff, then drops it down and almost seems to clash or stumble over the drums. Then he picks it up again, and then launches into an extended riff which destroys the timing, and it seem for a moment like it might fall apart, but then it gathers together again and then at 00:46 he plays something so detached from the time signature that I still can't quite figure it out. It's one of my favorite Led Zeppelin moments by far. Pure magical genius.

    Or an accident?
     
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  16. BelairPlayer

    BelairPlayer Tele-Afflicted

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    I’m lead to believe these lads were consumers of the jazz cabbage. “A friend” told me that stuff can impact your sense of time.
     
  17. JDC

    JDC Tele-Holic

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    That bit from :46-:48 is tough to listen to. I don't have any way to slow it down or I'd see if Page stuck an extra note in at :49 to keep from losing the plot.
     
  18. percy

    percy Tele-Meister

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    blues over load
     
  19. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Holic

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    John Paul Jones definitely was, but oddly, Page not so much, as Martin Power writes in No Quarter: The Three Lives of Jimmy Page:
     
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  20. Colo Springs E

    Colo Springs E Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I can't hear what you're referring to? I also can't hear Bonham counting in like others are saying, but I should try it with headphones.
     
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