NPD- Envelope Filter- Disappointed

RifleSlinger

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Just got my first envelope filter, the Fender Pour Over. I like the way these new Fender pedals seems to be their own thing, and they look cool, but this pedal isn't doing it for me.

The main issue is the adjustment range of the controls. There is a very narrow range of adjustment that produces a usable effect. When I can get the effect sounding its best, the drive setting, which controls the sensitivity of the effect, even when turned up all the way, still requires a very heavy touch to get it to produce the effect.

A smaller complaint is that there is a warbliness to the effect.

I still have time to return it. I got it used for $100. I could get an EH Q-Tron Nano for a little less than that. All I really need for options is band pass mode with both up and down sweeps.

Anyone with experience with the Q-Tron, does it respond well with lower output classic tele single coil pickups? I am hoping to be able to use a light touch, even on the thinner strings.
 

Vibroluxer

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I'm not familiar with that pedal but I have found out that many of non-overdrive pedals have a little pot inside that controls the effect. Remember where it was when you open up the pedal, turn the pot oh so slowly, just a hair. Test it out, re-adjust,test.

But if you're planning on returning it, then disregard the above. 😎
 

adjason

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its kind of the nature of the beast with envelope filters- I found that out with the keely neutrino before I returned it- lots of guys use a boost pedal etc with them, but yeah I agree they are hard to trigger with single coils not at full treble
 

northernguitar

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I have a Micro QTron. It has a serious quack to it. I run a compression pedal after it to squash it down a bit. I haven't tried the new Nano.
 

Vibroluxer

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And make sure the effect is early in your chain. I have a Maxon AF9, if it isn't 1st or 2nd the amount and quality of effect diminishes.
 
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dlew919

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Like fuzz each one is different. Follow the advice above. And how hard you hit the string counts. Keep going.
 

quadtele

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its kind of the nature of the beast with envelope filters

Yup, they are finicky boxes to dial in and tend to have narrow sweet spots in terms of settings, where you are playing on the neck, what guitar you are using, etc.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a self adapting envelope filter.....
 

loopfinding

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the problem is a guitar pedal design problem.

most envelope filters just use a crude envelope follower (circuit that converts the guitar's amplitude information into a control signal) to control the filter's frequency.

the better way to do it would be to use a circuit on the follower's output to produce a gate/tigger signal at a set threshold. then you send that trigger to fire off an actual attack/release envelope generator to control the filter's frequency.

when i run my guitar through my synthesizer this is how i do it (with a gate output of the follower and a seperate envelope generator). it produces the most consistent results. i hardly ever bother with the envelope follower's raw output.

but unfortunately guitar pedal manufacturers usually just take a simplistic/"if it ain't broke" approach to envelope filters. the extra circuitry for a comparator and a really basic decay envelope would be trivial to add.
 
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loopfinding

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The best results will be found on the neck pickup with the tone rolled down.
Volume must be full-up on your guitar.

that might give a better detection result for the envelope follower circuit, but then you would have hardly any upper harmonics on the signal to actually filter, haha.
 
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Lies&Distortion

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I have a Rubber Chicken that I liked. It worked pretty well until it died.​

Picked up a Mu-Tron Micro-Tron IV. It's great. But it's close to 3x more expensive than what you got. I still would like more control over the attack time. It works with various pickups.​

 

Askwhy

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They can definitely be finicky. Always loved the effect but until i got a Rubber Chicken, i never found one i could dial in easily that triggered well with a strat. Mine hasn't died..knock on wood. I would look only for those that have an output/volume (most don't) as it gives you more flexibility in hitting it with the right amount of signal, which is key.
 

RifleSlinger

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I did some studying and played around with my pedal order. I had been running the Pour Over first in the chain, but I stuck my BYOC compressor before it, and a Timmy before that. I tried a buffered pedal before, with the effect off, just to see if that would help, but it really didn't do much, if anything.

With just the Timmy on, just set for a little "extra", the filter is pretty predictable and sounds pretty vocal. The Pour Over is still very sensitive to the setting adjustment- I basically have to touch the knobs instead of turning them. The comp allows the filter to react even to the neck pickup (standard Tele style), but gives a much quicker sweep. With both on I get this interesting warbly sound like I'm shaking a piece of thin sheetmetal or plexiglass.

I think if I had it to do over again, I'd probably go Analogman, just based on the reviews, but from what I can gather, this is basically par for the course as far as envelope filters go- on the finicky side.
 

wrathfuldeity

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the problem is a guitar pedal design problem.

most envelope filters just use a crude envelope follower (circuit that converts the guitar's amplitude information into a control signal) to control the filter's frequency.

the better way to do it would be to use a circuit on the follower's output to produce a gate/tigger signal at a set threshold. then you send that trigger to fire off an actual attack/release envelope generator to control the filter's frequency.

when i run my guitar through my synthesizer this is how i do it (with a gate output of the follower and a seperate envelope generator). it produces the most consistent results. i hardly ever bother with the envelope follower's raw output.

but unfortunately guitar pedal manufacturers usually just take a simplistic/"if it ain't broke" approach to envelope filters. the extra circuitry for a comparator and a really basic decay envelope would be trivial to add.
^Interesting, though really don't have an idea what your are talking about.

Similar issues as others noted, however its been greatly and mostly resolved. Tried compressor, parametric eq...ehh meh. But the simplest, easiest and best was to stick ye old modded Seymour Duncan Pick up Booster in front of the VFE Mini Mu (first, only EF and its not going anywhere). Got quack all over the fret board, regardless of strings, pu's/switch, and attack and rolling off vol and tone works well. Heavily modded mia Peavey Predator strat with after market low output single coils. The SD Pick up booster has been modded, iirc with a reverse linear 50k pot to lessen the volume jump...and also powering it with a "Dead Bat" to further turn down the juice...works great. Anyway very consistent, controllable and excellent range of quacky via the git knobs...despite the MiniMu has a ton of knobs for adjustment...but rarely tweak any of those.
 
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loopfinding

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^Interesting, though really don't have an idea what your are talking about.

if you ever see and get the chance to mess around with a korg ms-20 (or the reissue) somewhere, it's really easy and fun to do it with that. or a sherman filterbank.

ray wilson made a guitar synth that was essentially this idea (analog synth without oscillators):

 
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