Now That We're Toning It Down, What To Do With All These Loud Amps?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by swampyankee, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    for some styles of music, not being loud enough is incredibly unsatisfying. if i'm seeing a punk, metal, drone, or noise band and i can't hear them with my collarbone i don't enjoy it nearly as much. same goes for reggae and dub.
     
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  2. twangjeff

    twangjeff Tele-Afflicted

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    If you play a small amp and want to be heard, there is a device called a microphone that you can place in front of your amp. You can then send the signal from this microphone into something called a PA system where it will be amplified through the FOH. If you want to get really fancy, you can even get something called a monitor and it will direct a customized mix of the band back to you.

    Pretty revolutionary stuff.
     
  3. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I've heard of those. :)
     
  4. Telecastoff1

    Telecastoff1 Tele-Afflicted

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    There was an excellent guitar player I had worked with on numerous times. He was a great player, but he was always too loud. He was afraid he wasn't going to be heard, I guess. He too, had a Twin Reverb at the time. But now things have changed and he plays thru a Princeton Reverb and mikes it. No difference...He just cranks up his channel on the PA and blasts away thru the monitors and mains....deafening everyone same as before. You can't blame the volume problem on the amp...it's the immature player with the me-me-wanna-be-heard attitude that is to blame. Any amp, any size in the right hands of a mature player will sound great and not blast everyone's ears out.
     
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  5. swampyankee

    swampyankee Tele-Holic

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    We played a small function Sat nite. We started with a sound check with Db meter, balanced to about 70 Db across the room. The bartender needed to hear her drink orders so she was our sounding board.
    I used my VVRI on 3 or so, on an amp a stand but the new bass player insisted we keep the amps to the rear as a backline, which defeated the purpose of the amp stand.
    I couldn't hear myself well enough, and friends in the audience said I was too quiet but the bass player said I had to keep the volume down, and the other guitarist complained that he couldnt hear me. Talk about a frustrating nite!
    BTW, we don't mic the amps. At this level I could probably use my SCX12. I used it once at an outdoor venue and although it was micd I had to have the volume up too high and it didn't sound that great.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
     
  6. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I never have real high expectations for the stage mix. As long as the mix perceived in the house is good, that's what matters. Half the time I'm using my eyes as much or more than
    my ears to make sure everybody's in sync.

    I have a theory why some guitar players end up being so loud: they often jam along with recordings. When you do that, typically you make your own lead volume louder than the whole
    recording. When you get used to that mix then you tend to try to re-create it in a band setting. So the guitar player ends up wanting to be louder than the rest of the band combined,
    rather than being roughly equally as loud as every other instrument. That's part of why I like the system of pointing one's guitar amp at one's own head. You can achieve that kind of mix
    for yourself where you're standing on stage, but the mix FOH can still be good.
     
  7. gridlock

    gridlock Poster Extraordinaire

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    Right now my highest wattage amp is 30 watts, but I’m not opposed to picking up another 50 or 100 watt amp again. In fact I’m considering buying a vintage handwired, non-master volume, Marshall.
     
  8. Cysquatch

    Cysquatch Tele-Holic

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    IME, Mesa has really figured out master volume controls. I love my Rectoverb and the 25/10w switching is nice, but outside of changing the response, it's not nearly as good as just using the vol on it. I still run it as wide open as I can through an attenuator now because it doubles as my direct box, but I got no worries taking it out to jam and just rolling that knob back to fit the venue.

    For me, I find the speaker stops responding well simply due to a lack of energy to drive it before the amp experiences that traditional "sad, whispering amp" tone.
     
  9. Shuster

    Shuster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Too Loud?!?!?! What kind of wimps cry about a band being to loud,,,
    ,,, Stay Home sissies!!
     
  10. Lamar Fandango

    Lamar Fandango TDPRI Member

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    I keep a Bogner Shiva around for dumpy venues that only put vox through the PA. Good master volume is the key. For everything else, there's a Princeton for that.
     
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  11. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Holic

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    15 watt tube amps are just right for the clubs I play. Sounds better than a big amp turned down to me.
     
  12. T Prior

    T Prior Poster Extraordinaire

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    no opinions here ! :)

    The only thing I can and will add, if you are carrying a small amp and are expecting to mic it , because you are carrying a small amp , what happens when you can't ? I realize this has never happened before. :eek:

    And as stated a few posts above, when you MIC an amp you may be right back to the volume of a BIG amp again ! Now your guitar is IN FRONT of the band in the mains, with the vocals, rather than backline. Mic'ing amps is not a cut and dry solution. In many cases its worse, a negative.

    IF a sound guy is not 100% in line with every song and every solo, all we are doing is transferring our small amp sound to the mains. When you mash your drive pedal, guess what happened out front ? 15 watts behind you , 2000 watts in front of you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  13. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Dang right and movie theatres can be up at teeth rattling dB louder than many small local music venues. They want people to be able to talk over the music.
     
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  14. bettyseldest

    bettyseldest Friend of Leo's

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    I've used an amp stand for years, more recently I bought one for the other guitarist in our band. She plays 50w Marshalls usually 1x12" or 2x12" combos. I bought a stand for her to use. With the speakers pointing at her feet she had no idea how loud she was, pointing at her head she cannot take the volume. She now plays a lot quieter and the rest of us can be heard.

    We use one of two drummers. We'll call them Tasteful, and Enthusiatic. I play mainly cleans, and in small venues use a 6w or 12w 1x12" when playing with Tasteful, and either 15w 1x10", 18w 1x12" or 20w 1x12" with Enthusiastic. I keep hearing the other guitarist's boyfriend complain that I'm too loud. I guess that is because I play up the neck, with only the snare and hi-hat to compete with, whilst she is competing down the muddy end of the sonic spectrum with the bass guitar, kick and toms. As the venues get bigger l either bring out an additional 1x12" or use a 2x12" cab, until I need to mike up the amp.

    My Laney VC30 has not been used since 2012, and as for the bigger amps it is time I let them go. If you want pretty much unlimited clean headroom without the need to mike up, and can cope with the size and weight by all means use a Twin. I'm sure that there are some of us who do, but most of us don't.

    We have used IEMs with individual mixes for our last couple of gigs, yes it feels different, but everything can be heard clearly and we play so much better. The amp is now always miked up, but I could use even smaller amps if they gave me the sound I wanted, leaving the PA to do all the heavy lifting
     
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  15. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Still using Twins. Mine have volume knobs - and so does my guitar!
     
  16. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Does this mean I made a mistake in buying that '69 Dual Showman Reverb last week?
     
  17. naveed211

    naveed211 Friend of Leo's

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    My last gig I ran an Effectrode Blackbird into a Torpedo CAB direct to PA. Sounded great, just used the clean channel (very Fendery) with my drive pedals.

    I do love amps still. If I gigged more often I’d consider a UA Audio Ox Box. May be in my future anyway, seems like a good option.

    I actually don’t own an amp right now. The only time I can play consistently is at night so I just do software and headphones. Don’t get much enjoyment out of the whisper quiet amp thing. Bummer because there’s a silver face Pro Reverb at a good price locally that I’m jonesing for, just not practical for me at the moment.
     
  18. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good point about raising the amps up off the floor for more direct on stage monitoring. You can better Judge your frequencies there too.
     
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  19. Telecastoff1

    Telecastoff1 Tele-Afflicted

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    "Good point about raising the amps up off the floor for more direct on stage monitoring. You can better Judge your frequencies there too."

    I always use the tilt back legs on my Fender Twins and a tilt back stand when I use a Special 130. I do this at home as well as every gig. It really keeps me in touch with what's actually coming out of my speaker(s).....both volume and tone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  20. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    18-25 watts is a great amp for that. Deluxe Reverb is my go to amp for over 40 years and 95% of gigs. It's rarely over 3 on the dial. I almost always have an OD etc on though. Usually with gain near 0 and volume to suit.

    I always tilt back, occasionally use a stand, but I like the tone much better coupled to the floor. On a stand seems louder.

    Tilting back is a double edged sword though: tilted in some places puts you more toward the crowd's ears than non tilted, where the sound projects lower through chairs and legs.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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