Not again!! Elpee Standard to replace the one that got away.

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Engraver-60, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Yesterday, I did make a new short template for the pickup feet, and re-routed the body with it.

    (Note: this weekend was very hot and humid in Middle TN, and garage was a wet t-shirt kind of environment.) I also lightly re-sanded the top with worn out 400 grit and applied a couple more coats of French Polish. I'll take some pictures tonight when I get home.
     
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  2. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Neck is being set as I type:

    NECK_being_set[1].jpg

    I masked off any potential squeeze out areas, and applied enough glue to the tenon on all faces, and under the fretboard overhang, and the mortise. I'll know tomorrow if everything is right. Fingers crossed.
     
  3. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Here's the small pickup foot template I made Sunday, to re-route the neck pickup feet and bridge pickup feet to correct depth.

    small_pup_foot_template[1].jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  4. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Last night after about 2 hours of the neck setting commencement, I really wanted to see if all was well. I relocated it to be a little less precarious. This morning I wanted to remove the masking and clamps, but though better of it. I'll do all that tonight when I get home. Titebond I, so 24 hours should be prudent. It's starting to look like a guitar.
     
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  5. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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    You probably couldn't yank it out of there after 30 minutes. Unless you were trying to correct for a poor joint. 30 min. is all you need.
     
  6. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I know you're right, but I want to play it safe. I guess I'm used to 330 Epoxy - 24 hour full strength cure time. Besides this Titebond I is many years old (probably had been frozen in the old garage a couple of times). Now it resides on a window sill facing the South for good luck. It seems to work fine (I hope), otherwise Scrap-Paul will fall apart when I look at it cross-eyed. There's about as much glue in this guitar as wood at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  7. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I took off the clamps and removed all the masking tape, and it's almost a guitar.

    NECK_&_body[1].jpg body_at_NECK_back[1].jpg

    There's a minor gap around the sides and back of the joint. I might try to fill it with CA and Mahogany dust. The gap is actually about 3/64" wide.

    gap_at_NECK_body[1].jpg
    But at least, now, I feel like I can position the bridge, and remake the nut. Then, I can see if this thing will be a guitar after all these 7 months.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    builtbyseb, BluesBlooded and AAT65 like this.
  8. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    No progress for the past few days - took a trip to GA for the family to visit relocated friends in Athens. I plan to get back to the Scrapper tonight, and fix a few issues. The long shaft Push-Push pots came in while I was away, so I have to figure the angled control pocket routes to accommodate them. The gaps in the neck to body joint are still there (they did not fix themselves in my absence - darn). I need to make a new nut, and also determine just where the bridge goes. StewMac says 9/64" behind the the scale length for the Tune-a-matic bridge. Does anyone have a precise location (other than the drawings)?
     
  9. BluesBlooded

    BluesBlooded Friend of Leo's

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    I sure wish I made autocorrecting mistakes, but have not figured how yet.;)

    Did you use the Stewmac fret calculator? It will tell you where to install the bridge post in relation to the nut.

    https://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator.html
     
  10. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I put some tape down and lay out a centerline and scale length line as well as lines on each side projected from the fretboard edge.

    Then I set the bridge at an angle 1/8" back on the base side with the high E saddle on the scale length line.

    A measurement will get you in a ball park, but it really depends on the scale length and your fret slots. Just to be on the safe side, I'd do both ( the stewmac info) and direct measurement before you drill holes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  11. RickyRicardo

    RickyRicardo Friend of Leo's

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    I like this idea for locating the bridge. It's pretty much exact as far as I can see. Go to around 6:40.

     
  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    This is good. The only thing I've done different is move the bass side back 3mm and move the treble side forward 1mm to 3mm just for the high E string to have enough travel for intonation. I've seen a lot of complaint about not having the extra needed forward adjustment for that string from people over the years.
     
  13. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    I have used the StewMac calculator on all of my ToM guitars with perfect results, but here is a cool trick. If you know the gauges of strings you will be using this gives you the exact amount of compensation for each one.

    https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/compensation.htm

    Run the calcs for both E strings and put the centers of the saddles at that distance, then double check the 3rd and 4th string to make sure you have enough travel.

    I have put ToM's on guitars that will have wound and unwound third strings - that tends to be the tricky ones to compensate.
     
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  14. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks folks. I like both methods, and I will try to document the way I set it up. The 9/64" is equal to 3.572mm so this is all good info. The locations I have are from the full size Bartlett drawings. The angles and dimensions are not given, but I have sort of figured them out on the pdf.
    upload_2019-7-30_12-2-14.png
     
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  15. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    The thing that I struggle with on your drawing is that the bridge posts (small holes) are the critical dimension and they are taken from the stop bar holes, which is not. It looks like the red arrow above the centerline is the scale length - it looks like the treble post is pretty close to that. StewMac says for a 24.75 scale to put the treble post at 24.933 plus or minus a bit - that has always worked for me.

    Remember that you will never have the saddle ahead of the scale length so why waste any of the travel? It is reasonable to put the most forward location of the saddle at the scale but I sure wouldn't do what I think your drawing is showing.

    The location of the stop bar isn't critical

    IMG_2038.JPG

    I have measured from the nut to the 12th fret, put a piece of tape there then moved the end of the scale to the 12th fret. The blue tape is now at the scale length. Put the bridge in position, center between the edges of the fretboard (not the center line of the guitars). I put a drill bit thru each mounting hole and tap it with a hammer - that perfectly locates the centers of the holes. Take to the drill press and bingo!
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  16. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I was going along fine. I pressed in the tuner bushings for the E & e strings, and then mounted up a couple of the Kluson tulip head tuners, and realized the the headstock is 2.5mm too thick. Back to the drawing board!! I guess tomorrow night I can try to Wagner off the back side, and refinish after I get the bridge posts where they belong. They layout to be really close to the stopbar posts (probably because I've moved the neck inboard some). So I can try a top wrap over the stopbar to keep it as low as possible. I just roughed out a new nut, so I can proceed tomorrow night. One step forward - 2 steps back.
     
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  17. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    BTW - Next time, I'll wait to drill the stop bar bushing holes until after I have the neck mounted and bridge positioned. That way I can have the gap between the two components per the drawings. I really do need to keep a journal offline to document what NOT TO DO, next time.
     
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  18. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    The first guitar I built a made a couple of little mistakes, but was recoverable. after finishing, I was trying to finish the intonation, but was having problems. Then I noticed that the string thru body bridge was a whole inch off. Had to re-drill the string ferrules and mounting holes, but to my surprise the trem plate covered the earlier holes. Just had 2 rows of string ferrules on the back.:rolleyes:
     
  19. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    The headstock thickness issue - I'll RO sand it down on the backside with 60 grit, then work my way to a finish.

    The Bridge issue - I'll re-check - again, and make sure I am seeing it correctly. The gap between the stopbar bushings and the center line of the measured bridge location is really close - like 1/4" closer than the drawings, and I know I did not take that much off of the cheeks of the tenon. Measure 3 times and drill once.

    All in all - it just a (several) teaching moment(s). Learning new skills and covering up my mistakes.
     
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  20. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I just took the 2 E/e tuners off and scribed the lines at 15.50mm from the top, down each side of the headstock. Then, I sanded it down with 60, 80, 150, 220, 320, and 400 grits. Then I FP'd with the garnet shellac and olive oil dauber (about 4 coats), and re-touched the back of the neck and body. I'll let it cure tonight and get the tuners re-attached tomorrow night. I did re-check the scale length, and it appears I have my lines in the correct position. I'll tackle the bridge placement tomorrow evening as well. Waking up at 4:00 am makes it easy to wear out at 7:00 pm.
     
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