Not again!! Elpee Standard to replace the one that got away.

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Engraver-60, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    Now you know why so many manufacturers have Black paint always on hand.
     
  2. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    Could dye/stain the center V section a dark color and the rest a lighter color to make it look like a design choice.
     
  3. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I found a nice straight strip of mahogany and glued it to the treble side of the neck for about 8 frets worth. I'll see Sunday what I can do to shave it down.

    I have 10 soccer games tomorrow, and the kids' play "Lion King" at their academy.
     
  4. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Possibly another OOPS - what I glued onto the treble side of the neck - I thought it was mahogany, but after trimming it a bit closer to the neck - it might be walnut!! OMG.

    Anyways - I am doing a neighborhood yard sale in Nashville this weekend, and I will try to sell some of my urns, bowls, platters, and lidded vessels from woodturning. Then on Sunday I can return to Less-Scrapper in earnest. I am getting anxious to get this thing together. I need to hear it to see if even scraps of wood have a voice. I've learned a lot of things about this build, and hopefully by documenting here, as well as keeping a diary, I can avoid these pitfalls on the next build(s).

    Thank you to everyone who has guided me along this journey, and I do appreciate your comments, criticisms, and patience. Perhaps we all can learn from this noobie's errors?
     
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  5. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Finally have a few moments to work on SCRAPPER. I bought a nibbling tool and modified it for fret tangs. Works great. Nibbled last 2 frets (#6 & #19), and installed them. 0609190837_Burst01.jpg 0609190841a_Burst01.jpg 0609190841_Burst01.jpg 0609190842.jpg
    Now for a cup of java, and clear the router table. I've been using it to store stuff while the lathe was in use.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  6. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    That was the week that was - Whew glad that's over for now. My wife spent 2-1/2 days in the hospital with fainting and dizzy spells. I was made the appointed daddy daycare and chauffeur to all of the events they normally have to do - Track Team, X-Country Team, Orchestra, Camp Invention.... Plus attending to my wife in the hospital and carting her to different doctors, while they practice medicine on her. They should be guitar builders, like me. No answers, just lots of test and question.
    .
    But today I only had 2 things to drive for. So, I managed to have an opportunity to try to screw up the body once again. But I failed to fail - or I succeeded in routing the bad spot of binding out, and re-bound it. I even stained the sides to match, again. And scaped the new spot of binding. Tomorrow, being Father's Day, I have relegated myself to just working on the neck shaping, and body staining. I'll post some pictures as I progress. Or in my normal fashion - One step forward - 2 steps back.
     
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  7. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I started the sanding and dyeing process for the top. I used the Yellow Inkjet toner as a base coat and moved it around with DNA, then a bit of red to make it a tinge of orange, then some of pre-mixed brown to deepen it. After it sat and dried, I have applied 6 coats of DNA/Flake Shellac mix (super blonde) with a few coats adding olive oil to bring out a shine. The white areas are where the acetone and binding mix saturated the top wood. Let's just say "It's Reliced, before it's time".
    0616191236[1].jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  8. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I've got about 8 coats of FP on the top now, and it's getting glassy.
     
  9. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    I added 2 more coats of FP to the top last night, and sanded with 600 grit wet/dry paper before. SMOOF.
     
  10. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Sure wish I could do guitar work, while waiting for wife's test results at the hospital.
     
  11. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    Anything but waiting in the Hospital would be better I'm sure. She probably feels the same.
     
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  12. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Yep, this makes day 5 of tests and observations.
     
  13. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Finally, she's out of the hospital, and they found no reason or remedy. Our friend took her to her acupuncturist and she feels quite a bit better now.

    Back to making sawdust today, if I don't help the neighbor remove a storm felled 36" diameter silver maple from his backyard.

    All of the Gibson lawsuit stuff has me worried. Maybe a cease and desist - quit making crappy looking wannabees?
     
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  14. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    OK - this part has been bothering me, and maybe Marty can chime in and guide me.
    1) I've notice that the neck after installing the fretboard, has a back bow, and I have not even shaped the back of the neck. Is there any way this is going to flatten?
    2) The truss rod is still not tightened, which would only make this worse.
    3) I haven't shaped the back of the neck, which I think will make it worse, also.

    The neck was dead flat, and the fretboard was also dead flat. I haven't levelled the frets, but I'm wondering if this is going to be a waste of time. I'll post pictures this weekend when I get a chance to return to the project. Comments and criticisms are welcomed.

    The body has about 15 coats of FP on it front and back, and I think I'll clean with Naptha, and mix up the Behlen's Clear Nitrocellulose and Lacquer thinner and try a coat or 2 of gloss over. I bough a Preval spray so I could do a small trial, but I'm thinking the HVLP sprayer needs to be learned on Scrapper sooner than later.
     
  15. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I've experienced that once or twice. One time I found my clamp pressure was too extreme in the center of the neck, and the other time was the order I clamped them. The other thing is that occasionally the addition of the water in the glue is enough to cause a temporary bow, and it straightens itself out as it dries thoroughly. I put a straightedge on it while it is in clamps to check for backbow too. Using 5 tall C clamps and a thick caul allow a straightedge to be placed on top of the caul.

    If the joint is really good, then you don't need much clamp pressure at all. I clamp at the heel and work my way forward to the nut, using my caul and about 5 clamps. Hopefully you can level the fretboard back flat again. I might carve the neck and do the frets last too. It can change when you do the carve.


    Also the humidity is high now and really the wood should be stored at about 50% if you can. You also used a combination of dissimilar wood in the neck, curly being one of them, and cm isn't noted for staying put, at least from my experiences working with it.

    All of these thing are reasons why I try to only use quartersawn wood in my necks, as it has the best dimensional stability of the various cuts in my non climate controlled environment.

    These are all things I came up with because of the couple of mess- ups early on.

    Personally I don't care for laminated necks. The only twisted necks I came across were Gibson Norlin necks with the 3 pc maple, so I shy away from those.

    Hopefully it'll bend back when you carve. The rod just has to be snug enough to keep from rattling, you don't have to really get it to do some work unless it's bowed normally.

    Not sure any of this is helpful, but they are my guesses about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  16. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm sure Marty will chime in but I'll give you my experience. I usually fret my boards before I glue them to the neck (as I believe you have done). I feel that I have much better control over the fretting process. Many people, I would even say most, fret after the board is on the neck - I just prefer to do it first.

    The fretboard almost always takes on a very slight back bow from the compressing action of the frets and their little barbs in the slots.

    IMG_2615.JPG

    That is actually used by some repair techs to help control relief on old guitars (often Martins) that don't have adjustable truss rods - it is called compression fretting and is a bit of an art form.

    Anyway, every time I have observed that happening the back bow has gone away when I glue and clamp the f/b to the neck. I always adjust the truss rod so it is completely neutral when I glue the f/b on and I double check it against a straight edge before I put it in the slot.

    IMG_2618.JPG

    The necks always need a little fret leveling, I will adjust it dead flat before I start. Since I only use double acting truss rods that is simple - I might have to give it a slight turn in the anticlockwise direction to make sure the board is flat.

    My experience with every board I have made is that after perfectly leveling the frets string tension will pull a little bit of relief into the neck and that I will have to slightly snug the t/r to take it out (if you've read my setup threads you know I like as little relief as I can get away with). Once I have a little tension on the neck I can deal with isolated problems - a hump at the heel or whatever.

    I have never seen this but if you simply cannot get the fret plane flat before you start it might be necessary to pull frets and redo them. My goal when leveling is to remove the absolute minimum material.

    This also might be a situation where that Erlewine neck jig thing comes in to play - in theory it lets you simulated string tension on the neck while you level and dress frets.
     
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  17. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Tele-Afflicted

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    I will add one more thing. I recently replaced the neck on a bass for a guy and the new neck came with a tremendous amount of back bow. I was able to get most of that out before starting to level the frets (which were some of the worst I've ever seen) and it came out fine. It in the second part of this

    http://www.tdpri.com/threads/basic-bass-setup.954817/#post-9133924
     
  18. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks Marty and Freeman. I'll consider all of this information and try to process it as I go into the neck shaping phase of this. Not sure how the back bow occurred, because all was fine Fretboard was flat and level, top of neck mated fine and was flat. Probably like Marty suggests, the water in the glue may have affected the flame maple which I'm not sure if it was edge or face grain facing the back of the fretboard. Anyhow I have to get it straight somehow.
     
  19. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    Well, I had a couple of hours yesterday to work on the build. The neck is NOT back bowed, but slightly up bowed with no tension on the truss rod. So, I started to shape the neck back. I used a 1" diameter sanding drum on my Dewalt 18v drill to create a basic contour at the 1st and 11th frets, and checked periodically with the Corian profile templates. Then a little bit of Stanley Surform rasp to knock off the corners, and onto my pristine Wood River drawknife. Man, that tool works great. Nice long curls, and removed just enough material to feel nice. I used some cabinet scrapers to hone to a comfortable shape, then some sandpaper. The flame maple center stip has the grain in the opposite direction of the mahogany sides, so drawknife and scraping had to be done very carefully. Neck shaping is my favorite task so far. Almost therapeutic.

    I am so frugal, that last year when I took a class at John C. Campbell for woodturning (Cremation Urns), I got 6 pieces of 2" wide Klingspor Gold Roll sandpaper. I think I have 80, 120, 180, 220, 300, 400 grit samples, and they have lasted for many projects. They are really worn out now, so I just ordered a few rolls of some of these because they're just so good for woodworking.

    I also did a trial fit up and the neck pickup has to move back because of my realignment of the cheeks of the neck. That makes my flame maple pickguard null & void. I'll post pictures later today, after a couple cups of Java.
     
  20. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

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    0630191017a[1].jpg 0630191017[1].jpg I I I I broke out the PC RO sander, and hit the end of the neck at the headstock, and the blend to the heel with 220, 300, and 400 grit, and re-applied some FP to show off the grain and imperfections. It actually feels better than it looks. I'll have to go at it by hand and some fine sand paper. I did make sure to not remove any of the Flame Maple where the truss rod is, because that thickness is only about 1/8".
     
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