Nocaster neck/bridge dilemma

[Frantiac]

After 50+ years playing Teles, I've settled on using Fender's '51 Nocaster pickups but there's a downside: the neck pickup on its own is outstanding, the bridge pickup too, but together they just don't do it for me. I think it comes down to the A3 neck pickup with its nickel cover being quite a bit brighter than the standard ones. As far as I can see to get THE traditional Tele middle position sound a darker neck pickup is the way to go, meaning that the neck position is less satisfying. Anyone else feel the same way?

By the way I did find a solution that works for me: sacrilege I know but I added a middle pickup (Nocaster neck pickup) but kept the 3-way selector: bridge, middle/bridge, neck. Now the middle position is great, like a Stratty quack on steroids. Problem solved.

 

[archetype]

After 50+ years playing Teles, I've settled on using Fender's '51 Nocaster pickups but there's a downside: the neck pickup on its own is outstanding, the bridge pickup too, but together they just don't do it for me. I think it comes down to the A3 neck pickup with its nickel cover being quite a bit brighter than the standard ones. As far as I can see to get THE traditional Tele middle position sound a darker neck pickup is the way to go, meaning that the neck position is less satisfying. Anyone else feel the same way?

By the way I did find a solution that works for me: sacrilege I know but I added a middle pickup (Nocaster neck pickup) but kept the 3-way selector: bridge, middle/bridge, neck. Now the middle position is great, like a Stratty quack on steroids. Problem solved.

Can you identify what you don't like about the middle position?

Is the problem that the middle position is brighter than you want? If so, can you solve that with the tone control?

I don't doubt that you like it, but I can't even imagine a neck pickup, in the middle position, replicating the middle position of the usual setup.

 

[Frantiac]

Hard to describe sound but I suppose it's basically a lack of warmth from the Nocaster neck pickup when combined with the bridge. It's not a big deal as I'm now happy with the current setup with a third pickup and as I mentioned I'm now using the neck position much more now so that's a plus. Of course it comes down to personal taste - I remember Rory Gallagher saying in an interview that he "hated" the Tele middle position. Adding the third pickup (which he did for a time) doesn't replicate the middle position at all but it does give me a warmer and more useful middle position - not sure why it would be warmer but it definitely is.

I originally posted this because the Nocaster pickups are very highly regarded by everyone but the middle position is so different from the A5 pickups I had before (Lindy Fralin Stock) that I wondered what others may have experienced.

 

[Antoon]

Glad that mod works for you. Otherwise it would have been possible to mod just the middle position with a cap, or resistor + cap to make it warmer.

 

[Boreas]

I don't know much about pickups, but is it possible to de-gauss A3 magnets slightly? Will that warm them up?

 

[Frantiac]

As far as I'm aware degaussing just affects the volume but I could be mistaken. The thing is with the Fralin pickups I used the middle position a lot but not the neck pickup on its own, but with the Nocasters I found myself happily using the neck pickup more but not the middle position. So both the 1st and 3rd positions are perfect as they are and I don't want to mess with them. Anyway I'm sorted now with a middle/bridge combo in the 2nd position. As you can imagine I did experiment with a lot of wiring options with the 3 pickups: series/parallel/out-of-phase/extra switches/S1 etc. but at the end of the day I found myself just using 3 basic sounds, plus a 5-way selector is a bit awkward on a Tele (and yes I did try reversing the control plate for a while!). So it's back to a 3-way selector and 3 sounds, with a .015 µF tone cap - but that's another topic altogether...

Thanks for your suggestions though fellas

 

[Papa Che]

I have the CS Fender 51 Nocaster set. I feel the same. The middle position lacks Body. It’s too thin somehow. Also the neck pickup need more tone and the bridge pickup less tone on the guitar! I’ve never had this happen with other sets. Usually it’s the other way around.
This set sure has fine dynamics.

So I moved away to Lollar Special T set and am happy now. The middle sounds great to me. Neck is great for big clean chords and arpeggio and fun with distortion and fuzz. The bridge is always fun with overdriven and distortion, but less so with clean (for me as I don’t play country but but more prog).

I still have the 51 Nocaster set and plan to test it into a cheap Harley Benton T guitar.

 

[Telecaster88]

I played the stock A5s in my Am Std Tele for decades, and for me the middle position on that guitar is pure beauty... Chimey but warm, no icepick, bright and punchy but smooth.

A few years back I picked up a guitar with Nocasters, and the difference was immediately apparent. As far as my experience goes, the Nocaster neck and bridge are much more useable on their own. Bridge alone is sharp but not icepicky. The Nocaster neck alone is warm but clear. Not wooly at all. Kinda like the middle position on my Am Std. So the Nocaster middle position is rendered a little less compelling because the two pickups alone are so great/useful. I still mainly ride the middle position with the Nocasters, as the neck alone is just a tad darker than my music usually calls for, but if necessary I could go with the neck alone and get used to it fast.

 

[pbenn]

Thought Nocasters were no tone (blend circuit) on Neck.
Would explain bright and clear when alone.
Mix could be tweaked with opposing rakes?

 

[Telecaster88]

Thought Nocasters were no tone (blend circuit) on Neck.
Would explain bright and clear when alone.
Mix could be tweaked with opposing rakes?

IIRC, yeah, the original Nocaster guitars were wired different... I assume in this thread we're just talking about the Nocaster pickups with modern wiring.

 

[Frantiac]

Since my original post I've done a bit more experimenting (too much time on my hands) and come up with the following conclusions, bearing in mind that I have a 3 pickup Tele equipped with Nocasters, i.e. a neck pickup in the middle position:

Neck pickup sounds great
Bridge pickup sounds great
Neck/middle is a bit lifeless and not something I'd ever use
Neck/bridge, as I said in the original post, doesn't really do it for me either
Middle/bridge sounds great - use it live most of the time. Bright and quacky and ballsier than the same position on a Strat.

The surprise is the middle pickup on its own - lots of character, sort of half-quacky and fatter than a Strat middle position. All-in-all very useable and I definitely recommend it if you're thinking of adding a middle pickup. Looks classier than the Nashville Tele's Strat pickup too...

 

[BrokenTele]

Why not throw a Twisted Tele in the neck to improve pos 4 and 6?

TT- Neck
Nocast - Middle
Nocast - Bridge

Seems like a good Nashville mix to me.

 

[misterdontmove]

This.

 

[Frantiac]

The thing is I don't want to change the pickups - I love the neck position as is and I think I finally now have the guitar battle-ready, but thanks for the suggestion. Also, how many sounds do you actually need for live work? The four I now have cover all my needs really.

@misterdon't move: tee-hee, I understand fully where you're coming from and I've been using Teles wired like that since the sixties but when I discovered the Nocaster pickups things changed. As I said in the original post the middle position with these pickups just didn't work for me and adding the middle pickup solved the problem. Sacrilege I know. Basically the Nocaster pickups seem to be half way between standard A5 Tele pickups and Strat pickups, but with more of just about everything. Maybe it's not a real Telecaster but after using this setup live for a couple of years now I couldn't be happier.

 

[cousinpaul]

I'd wire it like a 3-way strat.

 

[Frantiac]

Do you mean just the 3 pickups individually? If so that's basically what I've done with a 3-way selector. I've just added a mini-toggle to add the bridge pickup to the middle position - couldn't do without that sound. For several years I had the guitar wired like the traditional 3-pickup Gibsons: bridge, middle/bridge, neck but I really like to have the option of the middle pickup on its own too, hence the mini-toggle. Tried it with a 4-way selector instead but a 3-way on a Tele just feels right.

By the way, earlier I said I'd been playing Teles since the sixties which makes me sound like a child prodigy - I definitely wasn't! I've checked and I actually got my first Tele in 1971 for £90, a beautiful sunburst bound-bodied 1967 Custom Telecaster - wish I still had it...

 

[cousinpaul]

I got the impression you liked the individual pickups but were not crazy about the combinations.

 

[Frantiac]

There's just one, as I wrote earlier: "Middle/bridge sounds great - use it live most of the time. Bright and quacky and ballsier than the same position on a Strat." The other combinations don't do much for me to be honest. Mind you if push came to shove I'd be more than happy with just the individual pickups. Spoilt for choice really.

 

[Timbresmith1]

Hard to describe sound but I suppose it's basically a lack of warmth from the Nocaster neck pickup when combined with the bridge. It's not a big deal as I'm now happy with the current setup with a third pickup and as I mentioned I'm now using the neck position much more now so that's a plus. Of course it comes down to personal taste - I remember Rory Gallagher saying in an interview that he "hated" the Tele middle position. Adding the third pickup (which he did for a time) doesn't replicate the middle position at all but it does give me a warmer and more useful middle position - not sure why it would be warmer but it definitely is.

I originally posted this because the Nocaster pickups are very highly regarded by everyone but the middle position is so different from the A5 pickups I had before (Lindy Fralin Stock) that I wondered what others may have experienced.

Awesome! Now I have something in common with Rory Gallagher (besides the fact that we both own(ed) a guitar).

 

[Maguchi]

I got the '51 No'caster pickup pair that came in a Fender Parallel Universe Whiteguard Strat (really a Tele in a Strat body). And I like the middle position with both pickups. I do tweak my tone knob a little when I use the in the middle 2 pickup combination though.