NGD! Washburn something. Stage series. Mystery. Could be a '79 serial number? odd details. Project.

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by GreenMagicMan, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    From what I can tell, about 2/3 of them still exist. Some in better shape than others :)

    Salt is a problem here yes. We use more salt than sand here. So yes, rust is a big problem.

    In fact, when we got it back in the day, you would not believe how rotten it was. I mean, this is beyond ANYTHING I have ever seen. We couldnt find anything solid what so ever. The underside of the tunnel, was so rotten that I stock a screwdriver up into it, and with 2 fingers walked all the way down toward the rear with no resistance what so ever. It was completely gone.

    And yes, that is the front of the frame that has a huge rust hole all the way around the top. I tried to zoom because I dont have better pictures than this right now.

    A.JPG B.JPG C.JPG J.JPG Safari rust.jpg
     
  2. GreenMagicMan

    GreenMagicMan Tele-Meister

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    Oh my gosh!
    I thought I was winning the 'rust olympics' here with a farm used and park on grass outdoors and never washed 2003 Toyota Tacoma that I had to do massive work on for my cousin.
    Every time I have to work on it, it's a rust storm battle. I had to buy a cutoff wheel and angle grinder to chop off rusted out crap and PB Blaster XL size cans too... anything I can to combat the extreme rust and rot.

    But the saving grace: It was subject to the famous Toyota frame recall, where about 5 years ago Toyota put in a brand new frame for free under recall! (and new fuel and brakes lines because original dissintegrated during frame removal).
    That was a USD $15,000 job at dealer! (owners given a choice: free new frame OR $15,000 off new Toyota with trade in and they would crush the truck)

    I guess that will fix some of those companies that lied about their metal quality and content since the 60s over there (sheesh).

    What you have there... I, uh, don't want to say how that would make me feel. It would not be good. I don't think I could find the motivation to work through it.
     
  3. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    @GreenMagicMan The part that made this worth it was that the whole frame was a VW Bug frame. So what we did was to cut off the back right around the place where the seat pans are welded to the frame. Than we found another VW Bug frame in good shape, and welded that together - actually using the correct Beach Buggy welding guide that is approved. That was the only way to fix it, still having the same identity as original. Still a big job though :).

    As for your Toyota. I have had cars where rust fell off if I slammed the door slightly to hard :). In Denmark cars have to go through the technical inspection every 2 years for this specific reason. Its also a given that all cars going through that inspection that is more than 6 years old, needs rust repair to be fixed.
     
  4. kookaburra

    kookaburra Tele-Afflicted

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    Cool guitar! I had a couple AV-15s years ago. They played well.
     
  5. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    Hi new here first post. Just picked up a Washburn A20 no serial # took off back plate which is wood, no serial however in pencil written A20 then below that 77-3 could that be when this was made ?
     
  6. GreenMagicMan

    GreenMagicMan Tele-Meister

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    From my small research here I think that's extremely unlikely the date. I don't think they made even prototypes before 1979 and sold them to the public in 1980. Where exactly was the pencil found? I adore the playability of my neck thru. It's still the finest build guitar I own of 13 by a long shot. I don't adore the looks. If it was an explorer shape perfectly it would be my perfect guitar. I've set the action very low on it and it does not buzz. Is yours a neck thru 3 or 5 piece wood? Does it have the brass open circles for fretboard markers? Pics? You might want to start a thread on it too, but you can add on here as well.
    And a note: no serial number Washburn A20 are an indicator it's very old, and probably a pre-production version. I would say it's likely a 1979 if there's no serial. Any chance it was removed or sanded off or anything zany like that? What do your pickup routings look like? HH, SS, HS, HSS etc?
     
  7. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    77-3 is not a serial number. Its a manufacturing parts number... to keep the parts together when doing multiple instruments at the same time.
    If you post a picture of the guitar, incl the tuners, the headstock, the knobs, the electronics and pickups I should be able to date it a bit more accurately.

    You would be dead wrong, GreenMagicMan. Sorry to say that, but there is a LOT of incorrect info in your post.

    First of all, the production of these started in late 1977, not 1979. The first one was sold in 1978, not 1980 as well.

    Third. The no serial number does NOT indicate its old. At least not 100%. From late 1977-mid 78, Yamaki changed serial number design, and because of that, for a very short time they used stickers for serial number. They also used serial numbers on the pickups themself + finally they used handwritten numbers (mostly Yamaki branded instruments we see this on). So in that case you would be correct. However, stickers was ALSO used by Chushin after Yamaki went under in 1984. So there is a chance that this is a late one built by Chushin in 1984. Thats why you would not be 100% correct in assuming its old just because there is not serial number on it.

    If you want more info about Washburns you can read the CORRECT info here:

    http://jedistar.com/daion/

    On the Facebook page, we also have a LOT of pictures from our Daion maniacs Event in Copenhagen back in November - where we spent 4 days together with the designer of these instruments, Mr. Hiro-san. To say we had a blast was an understatement of the year :).
     
  8. GreenMagicMan

    GreenMagicMan Tele-Meister

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    Thanks Mbechmann. I defer to your knowledge and expertise. I'm glad you chimed in and corrected some of the stuff I speculated on.
    I'm curious to see this guitar and see if it's old or a little newer.
     
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  9. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    Pics of A20
     

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  10. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    I have original speed knobs
     
  11. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    Thats a later version but it is not as late as I expected. It does date to around late 1979-1980.

    Now for the bad part. I dont think its as original as you think. It has been repainted and it would have a serial number on the headstock. There is a couple of reasons why I can tell that. The binding should not be black and gold. It should be gold 100%. So that has been painted over, and then tried to clean it off again from the binding.

    Second. The electronics are not original - but the pickups are. It should not have shielding like that.

    The last details that when you zoom in really close at the back of the headstock you see 2 things. A slight discoloration right where the serial number would be + a small hole from a tuner I think. Not 100% sure about that hole, but it looks like the paint has sunken in just slightly. You can barely see it but it is there. I have tried to attach a picture of what I am talking about.

    The fun part is that it does NOT say 77-3. What you see right there, is a Japanese signature from the luthier that passed the quality control.

    All in all, I think somebody tried to restore it keeping as much original as possible. I think its very well done, and its made the way I would do it myself if it was mine.
     

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  12. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    After searching internet i would disagree that its been repainted. I found several examples just like mine same binding Body,Neck and Headstock. There's one on a thread on this site that you commented on. it's the one with tele route. also me and my friend who has played and collects guitars for years.Went over headstock with magnafying glass there is a little dimple defect but other than that it looks original I think what you saw was reflections. Thanks for your input. you do seem to know quite a bit. I am going to bring to my guitar tec and see what he thinks.
     
  13. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    97% of all info on the internet is incorrect or misleading. I have been doing research into these instruments the last 8 years or so - and I am a part of a 3 person team that did this. I have read well over 6000 webpages, 3000 magazines, about 100 books and talked to more people than I can count. I am also an admin for that Facebook page. Through this we got in contact with the the designer of these instruments - Mr. Hiro-san. So he will be able to confirm what I am saying. I will check with him. But I am 99% sure this has been repainted. The binding should be all gold. Thats the main thing. Not semi-gold/semi-black. Thats the problem.

    As I said, its done right. Its done exactly the way I would have done it myself.
     
  14. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    97% of all info on the internet is incorrect or misleading. I have been doing research into these instruments the last 8 years or so - and I am a part of a 3 person team that did this. I have read well over 6000 webpages, 3000 magazines, about 100 books and talked to more people than I can count. I am also an admin for that Facebook page. Through this we got in contact with the the designer of these instruments - Mr. Hiro-san. So he will be able to confirm what I am saying. I will check with him. But I am 99% sure this has been repainted. The binding should be all gold. Thats the main thing. Not semi-gold/semi-black. Thats the problem.

    As I said, its done right. Its done exactly the way I would have done it myself.
     
  15. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    @Longhardgrind Any chance you can take a better picture of the binding?
     
  16. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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    I got an answer from Mr. Hiro-san. There are some really funny details in that.

    "Wao, this looks like Yamaki-Made A-20. I’ve absorbed ideas from Rudy and he does the same from Daion.

    The ‘79 is as you know, black painted acoustic with gold bindings. Binding material is not Brass but Celluloid. He took this idea into A-20 design, so this one is gold celluloid binding, not paint, I guess.

    As for back over, A-20 and ツブシ are written. ツブシ has various meanings, however in this case, I suppose grain of this plate was so awkward that they decided to use this on solid painted model. This is my wild guess in this case." Quate Mr. Hiro-san

    So in short. The writing on the back means that the grain direction is messed up, so this guitar needs to be painted.

    Second, the binding. We really need a better picture of the binding :).

    Last but not least, I was thinking. Have you checked under the switch cover if it has a serial number on that?
     
  17. Mbechmann

    Mbechmann Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

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  18. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    How can you explain pics of other ones that have same binding Like this one on reverb https://reverb.com/item/18528076-washburn-a-20v-black
     
  19. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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    No problem sir i appreciate all your help and your knowledge as i know they are all over the place. I had a white one i sold about 10 years ago there was not much info back then
     
  20. Longhardgrind

    Longhardgrind TDPRI Member

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