New Tele Action question...

[ponycar]

Hmm, this is one of those threads where posts indicate that the people contributing actually know a great deal about setting up their guitar.
The hundreds of posts on this forum where folks can't find "the one", are constantly flipping guitars in a quest for magic...
I suspect some of those don't feel comfortable setting up a guitar and don't fully realize the potential, or won't pay for a set-up. Others can't find someone who really knows what they're doing and cares enough to do it well. Kinda rough, I think I've come to take adjusting my own guitars for granted.
I derive great satisfaction from helping people set up a guitar so that it becomes something wonderful to play. I bet the advice shared in this thread will help some members enjoy their guitars more.

 

[Thebluesman]

a medeocre guitar can be transformed into a 'plays like a dream''if a set up is done by
1] a guy that knows how,why,where to adjust it..to 'tailor it to 'fit like a glove'
2]a complete set up starts with the frets.=L & C'ing them without error.Any uneven fret height will cause fret buzz regardless of string height preference[The Action]
3]With any fret errors traced & eradicated the following can proceed
[1] Reduce the Action at the nut-affects from fret 1 to approx fret 5,remaining frets unaffected until
[2]the saddle height now made lower-affects all the frets.
[3] the relief that now suits the players 'playing style' an aggressive player v the less agreesive player[refers to the plectrum hand]

if the guy doing the set up lacks the full understanding required to complete to 100% satisfaction the steps mentioned then FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN or learn to DIY it etc.=many do with success.

 

[Thebluesman]

some new players new to the gtr can be left with a dissatisfactory set up simply because the (shop)Guitar tech(?)lacks the full understanding that is imperative to know 1st & formost....,before commencing to set up any guitar,acoustic or electric etc.
Find someone who can guarantee their workmanship !

 

[Nick Fanis]

when is action too low with regard to playing?

when YOUR playing style causes excessive buzz audible through the amp

 

[Wrighty]

exactly=you gave a different interpretation and still nailed it 100%

We concur!

 

[ronzhd]

Maybe it's just me, but if you are paying the guy for the set ups, you need to change techs.

 

[Thebluesman]

when your attack is aggressive=increase the relief
if your attack is gentler=less relief required.
the alternative can be to raise the bridge/saddles=increase the string height.+leave the relief as is.
it is mostly dependent upon the resulting 'feel /playability in the end

 

[telemnemonics]

There is no right nor wrong.it either suits or does not.the action(string height preference) is to personal taste since every player ,his musical preferences is and will be unique=thus the resulting set up that now suits will be unique.a few thou'' difference can be felt via the fret fingers etc.that is what steers the end result that pleases.

Well I would say there actually IS right and wrong with setting up a guitar!
Working as a guitar tech I have seen a lot of "wrong".

Part of that is not that a setup is "wrong" so much as that the player who set up their own guitar only really "knows" their one habit for how they decided a setup should be done. Because they never really had to face setups for a variety of players and sample alternate setups.

Reading setup methods on guitar forums is such a mashup of repeated cliche ideas about the process and the end result, that learning on the net is just a mess of opinions that are often not grounded in fully understanding the range of what works for who and how to figure out which who you are then how to optimize for that playing style, all while being in the process of figuring out what our playing style actually IS.

Even just the large number of gear chatters who report that they cannot play big frets because they are all out of tune, plus the gear chatters convinced that if they just buy the right set of boutique Tele saddles they WILL sound in tune, confirms that we a big mess!

 

[Thebluesman]

Well I would say there actually IS right and wrong with setting up a guitar!
Working as a guitar tech I have seen a lot of "wrong".

Part of that is not that a setup is "wrong" so much as that the player who set up their own guitar only really "knows" their one habit for how they decided a setup should be done. Because they never really had to face setups for a variety of players and sample alternate setups.

Reading setup methods on guitar forums is such a mashup of repeated cliche ideas about the process and the end result, that learning on the net is just a mess of opinions that are often not grounded in fully understanding the range of what works for who and how to figure out which who you are then how to optimize for that playing style, all while being in the process of figuring out what our playing style actually IS.

Even just the large number of gear chatters who report that they cannot play big frets because they are all out of tune, plus the gear chatters convinced that if they just buy the right set of boutique Tele saddles they WILL sound in tune, confirms that we a big mess!

i/we concurr-

 

[telemnemonics]

Darn this thread!

I was perfectly happy with my Telecaster until I got curious and went and measured to find the action had "migrated" a little higher (plus the neck relief was slightly increased) compared to late summer when the humidity wasn't so low.

I swear once I did those measurements, it became impossible NOT to notice that yes the strings really did have to be pressed down farther. Waaaht?

Fortunately, it took like three minutes with a hex driver to nudge everything back down to my .063" comfort zone (plus a few thousandths extra under the 5th and 6th strings) and to back off the truss rod about 1/10 of a turn. Ahhhhh, that feels so much better now

Not sure if you meant tighten the truss rod at the end there?
Rather than you saying "back off the truss rod about 1/10 of a turn?

I ask because like you said, the humidity level got lower, meaning the neck dried out a bit, which takes some time as the heating season starts.

When winter dry conditions dry out the neck, what happens is the neck gets weaker and gains relief.
So to correct it, or return it to summer relief, you need to TIGHTEN the truss rod, not loosen or back off the truss rod.

But while say a summer relief setting of .004 may become a Dec setting of .007, you could back it off to .010 then lower action at the saddles and still have a playable guitar.

Just not returning to the formerly chosen setting!
Maybe you just typed it wrong and you DID tighten 1/10 turn not back off 1/10 turn?

I see similar posts pretty often though and think many of us do our own setups by tweaking back and forth until it seems OK enough.

 

[telemnemonics]

A funny thing is I often see emphatic claims that the truss rod is not for action adjustments.

What I find and understand to be factual, is that if the guitar was set up well, then seasonal humidity shift alters the relief which screws up the action either too high or too low, we CAN adjust the action with the truss rod.

Quicker and easier too, correct the relief setting that drifted with the truss rod, and the saddles are still all set right for the relief you returned the neck to.
No need to fiddle with the saddles every time you adjust the truss rod if you are returning the drifted neck relief to the former setting the saddles are adjusted for.

 

[Thebluesman]

1] the truss rod should not be used to adjust the action.but..
2] adjustments to raise/lower the action should be via the string slot depths=the nut.if required.and at the bridge,the saddle heights adjustments.
3] the relief[adjustable] via the rod when deliberately adjusted simply changes the necks curvature.[a]it can feel like the action has decreased/increased dependent upon which way the rod is adjusted according to the intent.
the fret fingers feel the difference between A/b.
4]if its A= the distance between the underside of the string to fret top has decreased..a lower action now felt.
if its =the distance between etc has increased..a higher stiffer action is felt.again the fret fingers steer accordingly the preference.

5] the players 'attack'...how one strikes the strings[plectrum style/fingers only style can be catered for via the relief preference ,to avoid fret buzz from occuring too...by deliberately changing the relief,the necks curvature.=relief can be adjusted to cater for both types of attack applied and for the feel in string tension now felt overall.
simplified;
a)those with strong fret finger strength and aggressive attack- increase the relief may satisfy
b)those with lesser fret finger strength and a gentler attack-decrease the relief may now satisfy.
the relief can be adjusted accordingly to suit a or b.

 

[Thebluesman]

yet the string height,the action remains as is=only the necks curvature has been changed...,the resulting relief now felt overall by the fret hand/fret fingers..

 

[Thebluesman]

so measurements given in forums/books are not made in stone=the measurements are only'guidelines',a reference guide only etc.
since every player is unique=thus every set up will also be..unique.
no 2 players alike.
which makes every set up a 'challenge' to overcome for newbie and those with more experience alike.it becomes easier with 'confidence' and understanding of gained etc..

 

[Brent Hutto]

Not sure if you meant tighten the truss rod at the end there?
Rather than you saying "back off the truss rod about 1/10 of a turn?

Sigh. Yes, that's what I meant to say. Tighten the truss rod to remove some relief.

Probably a sign I've been posting too much, I'm not stopping to proof-read before posting. Thanks for catching that for me.

 

[Thebluesman]

the set up can change in a negitive way because temp fluctuations winter/summer etc affect the [wood] neck under tension from both the rod[when adjusted] and the strings at pitch[there constant tension]
especially if the action is deliberately low!the warmer temp affects the wood and the curvature[relief] ,the neck now 'relaxes.'=the neck moves...result fret buzz,or even the guitar temporarily unplayable.
option 1]raise the action until temp lowers...play
option 2]leave guitar as is[no change to any adjustments made here] =cannot play tempory.& temp the changes to as before=guitar returns to original set up state.=play as before etc.
or option 3]leave guitar with the higher action permanently..but that changes the set up.If it suits fine.

 

[hank]

Adjust the neck relief as flat as possible. Then adjust the string height. You’re welcome.

 

[Wallaby]

That's an excellent point.

Also the relative heights of the pickups have a chance to remain the same.

Quicker and easier too, correct the relief setting that drifted with the truss rod, and the saddles are still all set right for the relief you returned the neck to.

 

[68Kustom68]

1 ]At the bridge the lower the saddle the lesser the brake angle will be[but not so much the string tension.]
2]the factory installed nut-the string slots may have been left medium/high=still functional though it now has enough height to now make lower[to taste]=lowers the string height etc.

Fender manual: play the guitar to warm it up for ease of playing

 

[68Kustom68]

Adjust the neck relief as flat as possible. Then adjust the string height. You’re welcome.

I tried that and measured a gigantic .060" space between fretboard and string bottoms because of the factory Fender nut.

My cheapo acoustic comes in at 0.030".