CajunPicker316
Tele-Holic
Just got an email from Lovepedal announcing they are for sale. Seems a little too much gain for what I play, but the demos I've heard are great. Just wondering if anybody had any insight on what exactly it might be.
New Lovepedal Dover Drive
- Thread starter CajunPicker316
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Just got an email from Lovepedal announcing they are for sale. Seems a little too much gain for what I play, but the demos I've heard are great. Just wondering if anybody had any insight on what exactly it might be.
eddie knuckles
Tele-Afflicted
A rat/zendrive hybrid?
B.G.
Tele-Meister
My money's on a Tube Driver clone
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
Doubtful. It's being pushed as a pedal that both Billy Gibbons and Eric Johnson would use, and I think there was also mention of David Gilmour as well.
Now look at the beige coloring and the type and style of the lettering.
They are implying that it's a Chandler Tube Driver, even though there's no inclusion of a tube in this like with the Zendrive II (and spec's say this thing only draws 10mA).
There is some marketspeak about an internal bias control. I doubt very much it actually has anything to do with biasing - it's possibly more of a supply voltage control.
...It dawned on me that bias may actually replace a clipping diode toggle with a pot, kind of like what you have with the Fulltone Plimsoul. So all that is actually happening is "slowly and incrementally engaging" another set of clipping diodes. If you figure that this is an attempt to get the starved plate tube drive pedal effect w/o a tube, the easiest way to do that is with specific types of clipping diodes shunted to ground that will give that quality - it could be a sweep from LED's to germaniums, for example.
Another possibility would be to use the actual Tube Driver SS "front end" chapter and verse, and then just use some SS equivalent for the tube part, which doesn't behave like a tube in the traditional sense anyway! And Hermida is well aware of this - that's why the Zendrive II used a tube for clipping diodes with the rest of the circuit staying similar to the ZD I.
I hear what almost sounds like asymmetrical germanium diodes shunted to ground, and pushed in a way to give octave bits to the notes. Something like a Foxx Tone Machine will do that in non-octave mode.
TheSmokingMan
Banned
Trim pot could be setting NFB resistance like the expandora dip switches.
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
I really wouldn't be surprised to see something like this as the starting point:
Notice that it's been adapted for a single tone control. Most other sections are 1:1 with the actual Butler design.
IC1A is just an input buffer, and I could imagine Hermida dumping it altogether. I know Sean certainly would - not sure if he had any input on this. The marketing to align the thing with the Tube Driver tells me the latter - I don't think Alf would be hip to that IMO.
IC1B could then remain as it is - signal thru the inverting input, or it could be changed to be like a Rat/TS/etc. - signal thru the non-inverting input, and all the typical circuit constructs like you would otherwise see. There just would be no 12VDC regulated in and run on the traditional dual rail - it would be the 9V/4.5V/0V single rail setup found in pedals.
...At 9VDC, IC1B would definitely clip as the gain is increased. So clipping diodes would either probably be used in its NFB loop, or shunted to ground after it.
If dropping the IC1A buffer, it becomes a 2nd gain stage instead. A number of things could be done with it, so I won't speculate.
...But there would have to be some way to approximate the starved tube stages. I would think that could be handled with some sort of array of clipping diodes, but I guess I wouldn't rule out that the solid state "quasi-equivalent" - something like a pair of transistors with common emitter/common source - could be used.
The more important thing is to have the operation curve of that portion behave in "an un-tube-like manner," as is found in the Tube Driver. Looking at the following transfer curve plot for a 12AX7, it's easy to see what you have going on with such low plate and grid voltage:
...It doesn't even really show anything on that plot because you don't move beyond >+12VDC at the plates or <-12VDC at the grids. And at a swing of either 4.5VDC either up or down in the Dover Drive, the effect will be further caricaturized.
While the clips may be kind of crummy/limited, IMO they really do sound like there is no recovery stage after what would be used as a surrogate for the tube in the Dover Drive. So I would expect the "bulk of the clipping" to occur there. And some of the octave'ish stuff I hear tells my ears that you've got some "rectification effects" with diodes or whatever - that's how you tend to get those "octave multiples" with fuzzes and such.
...And it's kind of a grainy characteristic, which IMO again sort of indicates no recovery stage, so it would dump right into the tone circuit. That's why I have a link to the Baja Tube Drive instead of the Butler - just to show the singular tone control - keeps the same vibe but w/o the complexity of the passive T/M/B (or high/low) like in the Butler/Chandler/Dean Markley/etc. stuff.
So - if something other than passive diodes are used - if a pair of transistors are used for example - the trimmer could indeed be something for manipulating either gain or supply voltage. Or it could be something for continuously blending in/out different clipping diodes.
...At 10mA current consumption, the op amps/transistors chosen do not require much power to operate. That is the biggest deviation from the Tube Driver of all.
Heck - maybe Sean had much more of a hand in "designing this" than we might realize. Maybe Hermida provided the front end, and then Sean tacked on one of his many tail-end diode configurations - the things that barely separate the COT from the Les Lius, for example. Or maybe Alf helped him with those. Maybe it's nothing more than op amp stage(s) => BJT stage => clipping diodes => tone circuit. Or something like a Micro Amp into an Electra Distortion with a tone control.
...The "big differentiating design feature" with most of the Electra Distortion-based variants that Lovepedal/Gaspedals/Greer/Earthquaker Devices/Emerson/etc. seem to come up with is a switch for different combos of clipping diodes. So you would just replace that with a blend pot - at one end, you could have a pair of LED's, and at the other end you could have a pair of germaniums/Schottkys/etc. on that "bias" trimmer.
I think it's fun just to speculate.
Notice that it's been adapted for a single tone control. Most other sections are 1:1 with the actual Butler design.
IC1A is just an input buffer, and I could imagine Hermida dumping it altogether. I know Sean certainly would - not sure if he had any input on this. The marketing to align the thing with the Tube Driver tells me the latter - I don't think Alf would be hip to that IMO.
IC1B could then remain as it is - signal thru the inverting input, or it could be changed to be like a Rat/TS/etc. - signal thru the non-inverting input, and all the typical circuit constructs like you would otherwise see. There just would be no 12VDC regulated in and run on the traditional dual rail - it would be the 9V/4.5V/0V single rail setup found in pedals.
...At 9VDC, IC1B would definitely clip as the gain is increased. So clipping diodes would either probably be used in its NFB loop, or shunted to ground after it.
If dropping the IC1A buffer, it becomes a 2nd gain stage instead. A number of things could be done with it, so I won't speculate.
...But there would have to be some way to approximate the starved tube stages. I would think that could be handled with some sort of array of clipping diodes, but I guess I wouldn't rule out that the solid state "quasi-equivalent" - something like a pair of transistors with common emitter/common source - could be used.
The more important thing is to have the operation curve of that portion behave in "an un-tube-like manner," as is found in the Tube Driver. Looking at the following transfer curve plot for a 12AX7, it's easy to see what you have going on with such low plate and grid voltage:
...It doesn't even really show anything on that plot because you don't move beyond >+12VDC at the plates or <-12VDC at the grids. And at a swing of either 4.5VDC either up or down in the Dover Drive, the effect will be further caricaturized.
While the clips may be kind of crummy/limited, IMO they really do sound like there is no recovery stage after what would be used as a surrogate for the tube in the Dover Drive. So I would expect the "bulk of the clipping" to occur there. And some of the octave'ish stuff I hear tells my ears that you've got some "rectification effects" with diodes or whatever - that's how you tend to get those "octave multiples" with fuzzes and such.
...And it's kind of a grainy characteristic, which IMO again sort of indicates no recovery stage, so it would dump right into the tone circuit. That's why I have a link to the Baja Tube Drive instead of the Butler - just to show the singular tone control - keeps the same vibe but w/o the complexity of the passive T/M/B (or high/low) like in the Butler/Chandler/Dean Markley/etc. stuff.
So - if something other than passive diodes are used - if a pair of transistors are used for example - the trimmer could indeed be something for manipulating either gain or supply voltage. Or it could be something for continuously blending in/out different clipping diodes.
...At 10mA current consumption, the op amps/transistors chosen do not require much power to operate. That is the biggest deviation from the Tube Driver of all.
Heck - maybe Sean had much more of a hand in "designing this" than we might realize. Maybe Hermida provided the front end, and then Sean tacked on one of his many tail-end diode configurations - the things that barely separate the COT from the Les Lius, for example. Or maybe Alf helped him with those. Maybe it's nothing more than op amp stage(s) => BJT stage => clipping diodes => tone circuit. Or something like a Micro Amp into an Electra Distortion with a tone control.
...The "big differentiating design feature" with most of the Electra Distortion-based variants that Lovepedal/Gaspedals/Greer/Earthquaker Devices/Emerson/etc. seem to come up with is a switch for different combos of clipping diodes. So you would just replace that with a blend pot - at one end, you could have a pair of LED's, and at the other end you could have a pair of germaniums/Schottkys/etc. on that "bias" trimmer.
I think it's fun just to speculate.
I was about to say same thing, 11, but you beat me to it. Actually, it's a very nice sounding pedal, but not easy to get aholt of. Ebay for sure.
You beat me to it. Ha!
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
Well, if someone can grab one, pop off the back cover, and take some photos, it might provide a lot of quick answers.
I think many of these things are now mostly SMT, so it makes the process fast - just unbolt everything at the pots/jacks/footswitch, and it all slides out as one piece.
...Seeing the op amp(s), transistor(s) (if applicable), diode types, and pot values would probably determine a lot w/o even going into heavy duty tracing. If SMT diodes are used (or bridge rectifiers as clipping diodes), it might make things a little trickier. But it seems that things like the op amp and/or diodes tend to be non-SMT in these pedals. The Suhr Riot uses trad thru-hole germaniums for that one "mode," even though the silicon and LED clippers in the other modes are all SMT pieces.
Heck, just the pot values for gain and tone would reveal a bit.
Sorry, 11, I wasn't serious about my "about to say the same thing" comment. Fact is, I was dazzled by your knowledge, but most of it was Martian to me (like in Mars Attacks).
I am serious about the Dover Drive, however. I'm not a pedal chaser, but I do need that one sound for some haunting leads and this may be it. If I do pull the trigger, I will for sure take you a picture of the guts.
I am serious about the Dover Drive, however. I'm not a pedal chaser, but I do need that one sound for some haunting leads and this may be it. If I do pull the trigger, I will for sure take you a picture of the guts.
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
Oh, no need to apologize one way or the other. Yeah, it reads "like Martian," I'm sure. I always forget about that.
Given the name associations of both the users and the original pedal, the fact that there's some demo of what's supposed to look like a guy on a stage, and he's supposed to be copping EJ licks - I think it will not be long before a bunch of these things get snatched up. And while many may not be curious about what's inside, it only takes a few people who aren't thrilled with it to flip them, and THEN someone will probably take a peek under the hood.
I apologize up front for saying this, but I think the video with the Strat is pretty stinky. It's not to say that the pedal isn't good or wouldn't be good for other things, but IMO trying to ape EJ with it? That's easy marketing, but the thing seems to have some gruff/fuzzy/octave'y characteristics that I don't readily associate with Billy Gibbons/David Gilmour/Eric Johnson/etc. overall as a core thing.
...I would actually like to hear this pedal in the hands of someone like Oz Noy - IMO he could harness the fuzzy/octave'y things well. I would like to hear him use it on something like this cover of Twice In A While (overdriven sound starts @ ~2:32):
eddie knuckles
Tele-Afflicted
Tried mine for the first time last night - playing with the tweak inside the pedal, I can get a really nice thick sustaining lead sound that likes humbucker or bridge pickups most.
I need to play around with the settings more, but so far, I am happy with the tone I am getting for "that" type of sound - will probably use it at least 3-4 times a night with my current band. I will also try this with my other dirt boxes in tandem, and find the best mix that will allow me some slide guitar tone options as well.
It's not trying to copy the Tube Driver, it's specifically trying to copy Eric Johnson's lead tone of a Tube Driver INTO AN OVERDRIVING MARSHALL. It was actually designed to be "EJ in a box".
All you EJ haters who now have no interest in this pedal can skeedaddle...
Not many people have received them yet, but the reviews are rave, and a couple people report it's better than the MXR FET Driver was, which had a loose/flubby bass response... the DD doesn't.
All you EJ haters who now have no interest in this pedal can skeedaddle...
Not many people have received them yet, but the reviews are rave, and a couple people report it's better than the MXR FET Driver was, which had a loose/flubby bass response... the DD doesn't.
MilwMark
Doctor of Teleocity
It's not trying to copy the Tube Driver, it's specifically trying to copy Eric Johnson's lead tone of a Tube Driver INTO AN OVERDRIVING MARSHALL. It was actually designed to be "EJ in a box".
All you EJ haters who now have no interest in this pedal can skeedaddle...
Not many people have received them yet, but the reviews are rave, and a couple people report it's better than the MXR FET Driver was, which had a loose/flubby bass response... the DD doesn't.
Can we pretend I can get Gilmour from it?
Seriously though is it designed to mimic a FF + TubeDriver combo?
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
But it's also trying to convey that it's all things WRT all gigs - Billy Gibbons' pairing of it w/his amp of choice, which wasn't always a Marshall. Or the little Gilmour bits in the demo, which would be a chain like Muff -> Tube Driver -> Colorsound Overdriver (or Powerboost) -> EQ pedal(s) -> CLEAN HIWATT.
This isn't to say that it won't be considered a cool sounding dirt box, but to cover that much ground with decent emulation for that variety of famous rigs - that's a big time stretch IMO.
...But that's Sean from Lovepedal, IMO. A real master at the salesmanship end of things
. I've noticed that it's him personally who's uploading these YouTube things (or someone on his staff).I REALLY think that the "Alf part" of this Dover Drive is probably rather minimal, despite what this "joint venture" would try to portray. I just couldn't imagine Hermida ever making a pedal that tries to put a direct reference to a legendary piece of gear, both in the wording AND the appearance. Sean OTOH - he does it all the time. He'll sell you a box with one transistor, one knob, and a few diodes - and claim that it gives a full-blown overdriven amp sound. But again - his salesmanship harnesses the ignorance of guitarists when it comes to gear purchases (I do NOT mean that in a negative way - just a reflection of hearing many guitarists say "I don't know or care what the technical details are).
eddie knuckles
Tele-Afflicted
I need to play around with it more for sure, but it seems to have that "feel" thing of a fully overdriven rig down pretty darn good - I played a good 12 minute version of Zappa's "Watermelon in Easter Hay" last night and I could hold my non-flubby sustain notes for a real long time...
)
)
cousinpaul
Poster Extraordinaire
Despite the TD inspired graphics, I'm wondering if it might be LP's answer to the Wampler Velvet Fuzz. LP already has the building blocks in their inventory.
Seems like we're witnessing the birth of a new category with all these big fuzzy drives coming out this season; Dover Drive, FET Driver, Dumbloid, etc. They're a far cry fro the transparent OD's of yesteryear.
Seems like we're witnessing the birth of a new category with all these big fuzzy drives coming out this season; Dover Drive, FET Driver, Dumbloid, etc. They're a far cry fro the transparent OD's of yesteryear.
I'll report in a couple of days. Hope it's not overhyped.
EJ/Gilmour/Gibbons...in a box.... what we are really talking about here is fat, smooth, gainy, sustain... but not a fuzz. The first box I saw that was trying to do this was the Zendrive, which was marketed as a dumble pedal. To ME, if you take the reverb and delay off EJ's tone, what's left is just fat, smooth, gainy, sustain. And alot of pedals can do something along those lines. Just the ones I have personally owned:
Zendrive
FET Dream
MXR FET drive
Barber Small Fry
Fulldrive 2 pre-mosfet
...and I'm sure there are many others. When you watch James Santiago's video of "building EJ lead tone", he adds the reverb and delay to the amp, and boom- you're already 95% of the way there. The Tube Driver is very minimal in it's contribution.
That being said, if the DD, into an already-driving amp (because that's how I do things) does give me instant EJ/Gilmour/Gibbons (Altho "smooth" isn't what I would describe most of Gibbons' tones as)... then... why not! Sounds like fun to me.
Zendrive
FET Dream
MXR FET drive
Barber Small Fry
Fulldrive 2 pre-mosfet
...and I'm sure there are many others. When you watch James Santiago's video of "building EJ lead tone", he adds the reverb and delay to the amp, and boom- you're already 95% of the way there. The Tube Driver is very minimal in it's contribution.
That being said, if the DD, into an already-driving amp (because that's how I do things) does give me instant EJ/Gilmour/Gibbons (Altho "smooth" isn't what I would describe most of Gibbons' tones as)... then... why not! Sounds like fun to me.
