New Guitar Player at Church Service Today

Discussion in 'Worship Service Players' started by studio, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    Young guy, but not a kid.....

    Of course he was in the shadows between the Drum plexi and the keyboard
    space.

    He had some Fender guitar and a Fender amp with that
    familiar onboard overdrive sound to it.

    He played through every fill, every nook and cranny.
    Yup, I bet he was a little nervous but he sure filled it in
    and didn't allow himself to get lost in the mix of 8 worship singers!

    As the weeks go by, I'll allow the audio guys to try and dial him in
    before I give any suggestions one way or another.

    One observation, I don't understand how anyone can dial in a
    guitar sound when the amplifier speaker is pointed more towards
    your behind parts than up towards your ears.
     
  2. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    This what the church service stage looks like:



    This video is from a few months ago, but just to give
    you a visual of the setup.
     
  3. telepraise

    telepraise Tele-Holic

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    You can't! (or at least I couldn't). Both of my combos are on tilt back legs. Actually, My PRRI is tipped back on its legs but turned around facing the wall behind us, pushing the sound up and out for better dispersal. It's working well enough we haven't had to mic the amp.
     
  4. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    So, do you think today's amp combos are just monitors
    for the guitar player on the stage?

    Would they be better served in front of the player
    like a wedge monitor?

    then let the audio guys do their mix accordingly?
     
  5. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

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    That could work. But, if you like open-backed combos, the backline is still the right place for them....
     
  6. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    In my experience, your observation nails it.
     
  7. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Don't underestimate the value we attach to actually hearing the source audio directly from our amps.

    proxy.duckduckgo.jpg

    And I think you know what happens when baby looses this...
     
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  8. black_doug

    black_doug Tele-Afflicted

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    My cab sits on a stand beside me. I can keep the volume lower that way.

    FB_IMG_1565220851270.jpg
     
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  9. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

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    I play a lot of stuff where I'm unmiced like here with my Zinky Velvet.

    Here with my Boogie 50 cal + head on a Blackstar cab

    The little 25 Watt Zinky combo outdoors on the Blackstar cab

    Boogie Subway Rocket

    Jet City JCA 22 CUSTOM head the Blackstar
     
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  10. GoldieLocks

    GoldieLocks Tele-Afflicted

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    Hmmm, interesting. In theory it seems correct - and yet?

    to me: amps are living things that you play and push and they compress and react... A monitor is just a reliable stable (hopefully, Non-distorting) sound RE-ENFORCEMENT> I would never see my amp as a monitor. Although, all this modern electronic simulating amp toys don't seem to work like classic tube amps. But they'll do. Ever notice that a quiet amp reacts and sounds very different than a LOUD STINGING Compressing tube amp? Hopefully. Similar to playing a piano and sticking your head under the cover (a distance away balances the sound)

    I tried my amp Infront of me, Beside on a stand etc. I hated it. It's like having a singer YELL IN YOUR EAR. (depending on what kind of tone and music you make. Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald could never be considered "yelling in my ear"). Now I prefer my amp a mixture of beside and behind: just enough that it hits my ears and not just my pants (I made a plexi amp shield a year ago, so...) Electric guitars can sometimes be a nasty competing frequency that we love and yet destroys our hearing. You don't get Clapton's tone playing at 70 decibels.
    I understand the comment:


    You certainly can't dial IT IN that way. To dial it in you need to get your ears near it and see and hear what the microphone is going to get. Often what you hear isn't what is exactly being mic'd and sent to the board. There are many variables. Of course - if someone is using the onboard overdrive in a Fender amp: then they're doomed to start with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  11. GoldieLocks

    GoldieLocks Tele-Afflicted

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    This is a fascinating concern. Ask him what kind of music he listens to? I have 100's of albums where my favorite GEETARIST plays through every fill and nook and cranny. (From Albert Lee, to Satriani, to Van Halen, to Joe Pass, to...). I have the same challenge with drummers who listen to Dream Theater and Rush and Tool and Lamb Of God and (they're pretty sure every nook is filled with mind blowing drumming)
    But then again, I've dealt with quite a few prima-donna church minstrels who fill every second with their "Ohhh and Ahhhs and OOOOOO's and PRAaaaaaaaissse Himmmmmm". And don't get us started on harmonica players who don't stop to breathe. (and sometimes these are the FAMOUS ones).


    He may not know the RULES of your church taste. Or he thinks your singers ARE BORING and the music is in desperate need of his excitement. (which is what i'm guilty of on occasion). Give me a really wimpy boring band = and I'll take over. Give me a great mature band: and 60% of my playing isn't necessary - the spaces are then magical and those nooks are actually GROOVE.

    Let us know what happens in the weeks to come. (unless he joins our chat group: then we'll HUsh and talk about somebody else.) :cool:
     
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  12. PastorJay

    PastorJay Tele-Afflicted

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    We harmonica players don't have to breathe. Harmonicas come with a special set of lungs.

    One of my worst open mic experiences was being onstage as a singer while the harp player played over everything. And either had the wrong key harp (what I think was true) or didn't get the non-standard changes in the song (a slightly more charitable construction of the experience).
     
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  13. hotraman

    hotraman Tele-Holic

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    Yes... this is what I used to do, when I was leading with an amp on stage.
    These days I run my pedalboard with a NUX Solid Studio. I line out the the FOH .. no amp needed. We use IEM's at this church.
     
  14. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    I was all fine until you mentioned IEMs.

    You should have seen the look on my face!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

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    Let's face the facts: With electric guitar, the instrument is strings to speaker cone. Everything in-between is part of the instrument... So, any time you remove the amp and speakers, you are missing part of the instrument. It's better to have an iso-room somewhere than substitute a doohickey anywhere before the mic or room.

    That said, real instruments aren't in vogue much these days.....
     
  16. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    Yep, and electric guitars are out in pretty much every genre except modern country (which is really the current iteration of pop).
     
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  17. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    I heard someone has it in for humans too!

    First guitars, then Man!

     
  18. hotraman

    hotraman Tele-Holic

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    I think overall this is true.. but my young 21 year old drummer / FOH mixer was playing some new dreamscape music as we were setting up last Sunday. He told me he liked it, because they were using all live instruments. It had an ambient vibe to it. This guy spends a lot of money on vintage drum gear. So there is hope for the next generation of musicians
     
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  19. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    Okay, so today at church service the band and singers were wrapping
    up what seemed like a normal event of one hour of P&W and then the sermon.

    However, the pastor asked John (that's his name) to continue playing in solo fashion
    for awhile. So he did. What could have been a short one minute dance around the
    fretboard turned into a full onslaught of free form worship music!

    Actually, the pastor told him to turn his guitar playing toward worship.
    So as he developed his solo stylings, the rest of the band started to chime in and
    created a groove for him to solo over. it was a sight to see, then the congregation
    continued in their praise as the band flowed.

    There came a time when the guitar was obviously trying to finish and wind down
    but the pastor then asked for people to come up and get prayer for an
    assortment of needs, and as he did he once again asked the guitarist and the band
    not to stop playing. He said when they crescendo to allow the folks to pray and then
    build the groove back up again. He was orchestrating the interdependence between
    the music and the worshiping congregation.

    This lasted the entire church service. like a giant call and response scenario!

    I guarantee that John the guitar player didn't expect that much playing time
    and be the focus of or the catalyst of that much service. Well done John!

    But what about his sound you may ask?
    We'll get to that. Stay tuned.
     
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  20. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    So this was John's amp of choice.
    complete with footswitch!
    [​IMG]

    His guitar was similar to this one but without the fancy trem fixn's
    upload_2019-8-18_21-57-27.png

    From what I gathered, he wanted to run direct from his amp to the board.
    Which reminded me of the song from the turn of the last century:
    The Daring Young Man on his flying Trapeze! Lol.

    Here's a quote for ya:


    We'll get to that. Stay tuned.
     
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