New Gibson Les Paul Special - amazing, but with a very slight issue. Complain or not?

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by marc2211, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Right. I'm just saying I've learned to lower both my expectations and my cost threshold. Less stress in the end.

    Flaws on a $1500 guitar are far more concerning than on a $400 guitar. That's pretty much the consensus in this thread.

    I'm pointing out that no matter how nice and new something is, it will eventually get scratched and puked on if its used regularly. Sometimes sooner than later. If a new epiphone is "flawless enough" as a $400 guitar can be, then all the better. Cuz it's gonna get played. Any flaw on a $1500 guitar is going to be harder to ignore. The more you play it, the more yer gonna think about it, and/or worry about future dings and scratches.

    Not just that, but concerns of value and resale are more pronounced on expensive gear. A depreciated $400 Epiphone is far less a concern than a depreciated $1500 Gibson, for all the above reasons. At least it is to me. YMMV.

    Now, apart from emotional attachment to the Gibson brand (and maybe headstock and nitrocellulose), which I get, the only other argument I see purchasing the more expensive brand is that its American and/or (more) hand made. Well, I think there are far more effective ways to improve wages, health care, and working conditions in the US than just choosing to buy American made guitars instead of cheaper imports. I'll leave it at that.
     
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  2. RoCkstAr256

    RoCkstAr256 Friend of Leo's

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    My squier is better made bro
     
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  3. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    I will add this last bit, and then get off my soapbox and leave.

    I need to openly admit to the universe that I've been back and forth on this for a while. I've been looking over faded SGs and tribute LPs for months, used and new, trying to justify the extra cost over epiphones or other imports that are at least as good. Low end Gibsons get really mixed views, while mid to high range Epiphones seem to be reviewed fairly consistently high, as far as cheaper imports go. But the reality is that that the headstock and brand connection are key to me. I just wanted a Gibson. Period. Not because they are better. But because they are gibsons, and look like them. They are the original, and the standards. Period.

    I won't pay over $1000 for a guitar that's not an acoustic. I just won't. I just can't justify it to myself. I really don't want to pay more than $500. So I have primarily been watching used faded SGs. I almost made some offers last weekend, when I saw that MF/GC were taking orders on the new Epis.

    The new Epiphones are just better looking compared to prior years, and spec'ed right, to be enough for me to choose it over a low end used gibson. It's not a dream guitar. It's not a unicorn. It's a proper gibson-esque guitar that's affordable and playable. It's not a clone. It's an epiphone inspired by Gibson. They are under the same company. Epiphone is a worldwide respected guitar maker, with just as much history as Gibson. They are good guitars. They are good enough for me.

    Maybe this is how I deal with my cognitive dissonance. And if so, so what. My point is that its a good enough substitute for $400, for all the reasons I mentioned earlier. And I'm ok with that.
     
  4. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    So here's two from a couple builders. While they do both have some variance, there's definitely no dings or anything like the OP. The second one especially is darn near perfect.

    IMG_4810.JPG IMG_4811.JPG IMG_4812.JPG IMG_4813.JPG IMG_4814.JPG IMG_4815.JPG
     
  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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  6. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Not just yet - I want people to forget brand loyalty first :D
     
  7. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    But it could very well be apples and oranges then. As I keep saying (or maybe I just think it - I haven't written most of what I'm thinking about this thread :lol:), $1.6k for a guitar of the general build and quality (no sarcasm) of a Gibson - meaning good materials, expensive finish process, etc etc, is just not very expensive. I think we're all aware that the fit and finish takes over 50% of the time and cost of most of these instruments. That don't leave much...
     
  8. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Top guitar is a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Classic.
    Bottom is a 2006 Heritage 150.

    Pretty standard models, nothing crazy.
     
  9. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Fair enough. But the Gibson ... what does that tell us? That either the OP is an outlier, or you cherry-picked an example? Not sure I see what you're getting at. You think maybe the Gibson of 2017, with Henry J flogging everything off for cheap, to pocket the cash, was the time when Gibson was doing it all so much better than now? That's not what you mean, is it?
     
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    ...and the Heritage goes for what... nearly double the OP's guitar?
     
  11. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    It was presented that no guitar can be perfect since d'angelicos aren't. Which was crazy talk :D

    I just don't get the whole Gibson defenders. QC has been garbage for decades, and there's always improvement talk and it never happens. I haven't seen the latest 2019/2020 stuff yet.
     
  12. dickey

    dickey Tele-Afflicted

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    002.JPG I think you're nitpicking, especially if it's an otherwise good guitar. Want my opinion? If you want perfection, next time buy a Hallmark. Best fit & finish of any guitar made on the planet. I've actually TRIED to find imperfections on my new Custom 60, or my MOAM Custom 65, and can't. These guitars are the definition of perfection, and tone & sustain for days, along with the best tuning stability I've ever seen. Tone? Think P-90 on steroids.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  13. jonnyfez

    jonnyfez Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I hated nibs for awhile. I sold a LP TV Special and a SG Classic because there were gaps between the fret end and the nib. On those two guitars, the string would get caught in the space between the fret and nib when any kind of pressure or pull offs were done. I now have a 2018 SG Standard and 2019 SG Special with nibs but Gibson seems to have gotten it right finally (or again.)
     
  14. AndyPanda

    AndyPanda Tele-Holic

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    I've read several posts where people refer to the look of something compared to the OP's .... but I cannot find any picture of the OP's guitar in this thread. The pictures I find are from other people sharing with the OP what their guitars look like.
    Or did I miss it somewhere? As far as I know there is no picture of the OP's guitar in this thread.
     
  15. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    I guess my point is that if some builder came in here with those photos and said "what do you guys think of my fretwork please buy this guitar" he'd be crushed. But because the headstock says Gibson on it, they get a pass for "handmade" and that doesn't make sense to me. Has nothing to do with price point - if you can't make something at that price correctly, don't.
     
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  16. Dreadnut

    Dreadnut Tele-Holic

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    yeah, what boredguy said.
     
  17. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    OP said his looks very similar to the ones posted on page 1.
     
  18. stevemc

    stevemc Tele-Holic

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    if it plays and sounds good i think i would keep it.having said that i would have to play a $1600 before i would buy.
     
  19. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, I stated in my post that some come out cleaner than others.


    Again, show us all how to hand file this:

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    To the tune of everything from 30 to 100+ a day without imperfections. Of course some will look cleaner than others.

    It's not an excuse, it's LITERALLY a product of how the job was done. If you can find 30 people who will do the job perfect all the time, every time, shoot Gibson an email.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  20. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Gibson guitar construction is not a particularly efficient process. Lots of steps, lots of details. Nothing like a Telecaster. I'm sure they *could* change the process of installing binding to be more efficient, and do away with the nib fret ends in the bargain. Just like they could do away with a nitro finish on every guitar, and eliminate the massive extra cost in time and skill that process requires.

    If these occasional 'flaws' are the best they can do, while keeping some of these quaint old-world methods to their work, on such a large scale, then I'm fine with it. I've owned a bunch of Gibsons, and keep coming back because, for me, no one quite does what they do, and the positives far outweigh the negatives. Everyone has their own sense of what matters in the guitars they buy. If this is so disappointing, then jeez, don't buy them. But it's nothing new - this is the same process Gibson has used for many decades. So, 'surprised disappointment' (or whatever this is) seems out of place, to me.
     
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