New Fender Deluxe and Twin 100% Digital....

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by KnopflerStyle, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    648
    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    This is one reason why I'm all in favor of the kind of component-level modeling that Roland and (maybe) Fender are doing. Tube-era tubes aren't going to last forever, and the more of them that can be characterized, the more likely future generations will be able to play through something like them rather than just listening to recordings. You can say the guitar is dying, but there will always be the ancient-instrument enthusiasts.
     
  2. sulaco

    sulaco Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    277
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    jumping on the bandwagon here, I was super excited at the concept. I still love my Mustang 3 V.2 and pretty much only use it on the 65 DR setting with a tiny touch of gain. I thought the entire time, "I don't need anything else that this amp can do, man I'd love for one of these that ONLY emulates the 65 DR and doesn't look stupid, maybe it even looks just like a regular DRRI but weighs significantly less."

    Then I saw these pop up the last couple days and it was like my thoughts brought to life. Until I got to the price.

    A mustang 3 pulls off exactly what this amp can do, plus about 30 other amps and 20 effects, and gives me the ability to mix and match and stack and control with THREE foot switches. And it was $400 brand new.

    Fender, what in the holy hell are you doing? $900 for an extremely stripped down modeling amp that looks vintage!?
     
  3. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    I'm curious what the criteria around here is for determining an acceptable price point. Tube circuits do not automatically mean "worth more money," ya know. There is very little R&D involved in banging out another dirt simple analog tube circuit, they've been done to death for close to 100 years. Digital is much more involved in development, it requires people with some pretty significant skill sets and a lot of time to create and troubleshoot.
     
    TeleTex82, markal and Obsessed like this.
  4. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,905
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    Heh... I was just thinking how my favorite solid state amp I have played for a year now, plus the really nice 21lb 1x12 cab I want to get for it, is around the same price as the Tonemaster Deluxe. I didn't bring it up though, because "are you kidding??? That is way too much $$$ for a solid state amp! You could get a tube amp for that much!!!"

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Unfortunately they don't make a tube version of the amp I like the best.
     
    Frodebro likes this.
  5. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    My powered Kemper rack cost more than my Mesa Mark V. After five years with it (the KPA), I'm loving it more than ever and have not once felt even the slightest twinge of buyer's remorse. Those who have spent quality time with them will know exactly what I'm talking about. :)
     
    ASATKat and SolidSteak like this.
  6. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,481
    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Yes, digital amps are real amps. The only fakery is trying to disguise them as Twin Reverbs.
     
  7. sulaco

    sulaco Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    277
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Tube circuits do not automatically mean worth more. There is exactly zero R&D involved in continuing to bang out 100 year old circuits, because that R&D was done decades ago.

    So let's look at this 2 ways:

    1. It costs significantly more to manufacture old school circuits with tubes, giant transformers, etc. Moving from analog to digital in all things wasn't just done to improve things, it was done to drastically cut manufacturing costs and create more consistent products. It takes far less time for a factory to crank out the tonemasters than to put hands on a DRRI assembling it, wiring it, soldering it, etc. But that's not enough to justify the price anyway.

    2. As I said in my original post: value. I paid $400 for this same amp with a significant addition of other features, options, and sounds. Why would I pay 225% more for way less amp? Okay, so they discontinued the Mustang 3 and the Mustang GT series is garbage. Fair point. But for those of us happy to buy used, an M3V2 is $200.
     
  8. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    I have a MustangIII V2. It's a good little amp, but it was definitely built with a specific price point in mind. Little details, such as using solid pine as opposed to MDF for the cabinet, tell me that Fender probably put a bit more emphasis on the quality of the product (with its resulting higher price point) with the new line than they did with the Mustang line, which was intended to hit the lower price point market. If Fender did things right, the new amps are going to be going up against the Roland Cubes.
     
  9. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,884
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Location:
    Montana
    Seems like the perfect matchup for a Roadworn. A wannabe long time guitarist playing through a wannabe old tube amp. The cost is outrageous. DOA.
     
  10. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    I've been playing for over 35 years, with a long stint in my younger days playing bars VERY regularly in a cover band (and I'm also a better than average guitar player as well, which comes with the amount of time invested in it). So I would think it safe to say that I'm a "legitimate" long-time guitarist. What would it make me if I bought a roadworn guitar?
     
  11. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,884
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Location:
    Montana
    Respectfully, and there is always an exception, but the Roadworns and the faux tube amps baffle me for the exact same reason. Maybe there is a market for these digital amps afterall.:rolleyes:
     
  12. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,287
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    These new amps are in all likelihood a new computer. They have a different (more expensive?) speaker. Different more expensive Cab. They're not the same amps as a Mustang.
     
  13. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,273
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    That's what I had, I'm on my second one. Fender Sovtek 5881 works great in those.
     
    Chicago Slim likes this.
  14. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    There is definitely a market for them. It doesn't mean that they're the right choice for everybody, but then Mesa Triple Rectifiers aren't, either-and they're "real" tube amps, too. These amps fill a specific niche for people that want what they have to offer. I'm not one of those people myself, but I'm not in any way against people liking things that are different from what I personally like.

    The whole "real" versus "fake" argument isn't about the gear, either. That argument lies squarely in the mindset of the people who choose to make that distinction for whatever reason.
     
    MilwMark likes this.
  15. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,884
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Location:
    Montana
    For the most part, I agree, plus digital amps make sounds for musicians that are widely appreciated, but in this specific case of digital facsimiles of vintage amps, I think, "fake" is appropriate. An interesting discussion though.
     
  16. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    I wouldn't consider them "fake", more like a "retro" thing, much like has happened with other stuff. Some people like the features of digital, but the look of old-school gear.
     
    Obsessed likes this.
  17. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,889
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    MV, CA
    Exactly. They think they can leverage existing popular amps and charge the same price. Ehhh! These are like paying for a Princeton 65 and getting the solid state version which is like 1/3rd the price. Buyer beware. We will be seeing these on ebay and reverb.com for half the price within 6 months.
     
  18. sulaco

    sulaco Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    277
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    You won't get any cork sniffing out of me, either. I've been playing 20 years and have had them all, and eventually settled on my current lineup: a 65 tremolux, a 73 bassman ten, and Mustang 3 V2.

    The mustang sees the most gigs these days (though I rarely play out anymore, I moved over to corporate america).

    So, I'm not against paying money to get what I want, but there's a differential here that is just not reasonable. $500 brand new is the absolute ceiling for what I'd pay for any such simplified digital amp. This isn't a kemper, this is a single-purpose modeling amp.
     
    stevemc and NewKid like this.
  19. tlsmack

    tlsmack Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,133
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    Lonk I-lant, New York
    I kinda want that Twin, but really I have no use for it. A Joyo American Sound and $965 in the bank sounds like a better deal to me.
     
  20. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    14,300
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    As always, the market will dictate what is a correct price point.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.