New Fender Deluxe and Twin 100% Digital....

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by KnopflerStyle, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    As long as there is a demand for tubes, Russia and China will make tubes ... they will not go extinct in our lifetime.

    The amps that were really hard to dial in were those Peaveys from the early 90s. My pianist had a Renown, it had Parametric this, Post that, Pre that, Mid-shift. Better to find a setting and tape everything down but the Treble and Bass.
     
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  2. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    My Katana has a standby as well,
     
  3. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    Unless there is a crackdown on the tube manufacturing pollution problem. China and Russia now recognize them as hazardous.

    I think the manufacturing needs to find an eco friendly way to make them. But for who? Us guitar players? lol
     
  4. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Meister

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    In theory that makes sense, but in practice I'm not so sure. At its core, DSP modeling is software development which couldn't be more different from analog electronics. Take Kemper for example. The Kemper team has well over 20 years of hardcore DSP modeling experience going back to their start with the Access Virus VA synth. When the market for VA synths started to die off in the mid-aughts they took that wealth of DSP modeling expertise and started Kemper.

    My point is that yes Fender can throw a bunch of money at hiring a team of software/DSP techs to develop digital amp models but that doesn't change the fact that they're still way behind their competitors -- like Kemper. They may very well catch up, but it will still take a lot of time and resources to do so.
     
  5. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Discussing environmental issues re: Russia and China are POLITICAL discussions, and I'm not gonna open that can of worms. IF those places ever go "Green" (Lol), there will be solid state replacements for tubes that plug into existing tube sockets like SS rectifiers we already have. Cheap as good tubes, I'll bet.
     
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  6. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Speaking of which another avenue Fender could have gone down was NuTube... my guess is Roland had to address the pollution problem when designing NuTube.

    But the computer chips in these digital amps are pollution nightmares too, it's actually kind of hard for me to believe tubes could be worse than integrated circuit chips. ICs are pound for pound one of the most toxic pollution issues we've ever created. If they've been cleaned up it's only because many many billions of dollars were spent to address the pollution and no one ever forced tube manufacturing to clean up the same way. Silicon Valley was famously a superfund site years ago because of horrific toxic waste generated producing computer chips.

    One of the tricks with all these smartphones & digital amps having chips made in China is that a lot of the worst chemicals involved were banned in the US and Europe 25-30 years ago but are still allowed in China.
     
  7. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Holic

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    Yes and no. If Fender hires the right mix of people, they can pull something like that off and be good at it. If they're doing the same kind of circuit modeling as Roland, there are a different set of challenges from what Kemper does.

    Companies can make radical changes if they really want to. Nokia was a forest products company before it got into the wireless business.
     
  8. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Tele-Afflicted

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    After playing tubes that were made in the 50's, I've only found a few modern tubes that sound right to me. I probably have enough NOS tubes to last the rest of my life. The old tubes are getting hard to find and very expensive. The older tubes tend to last, while the newer tubes loose sound quality, after a year. If I had to choose between JJ pre-amp tubes and solid state, I would go solid state.

    I have gotten some modern Russian tubes, on a recommendation of Billy Zoom. I loved the tubes. The next thing that I hear is Billy Zoom bought as much as he could find from one batch that he tested (with an oscilloscope and liked). After using them to do amp reconditions for several big name Pro's, they all started to fail. Some times you get lucky, some times you don't.

    I know what you mean about the Peavey's. I used to use a Peavey Studio Pro for band practice, where I would often sit on the amp and bump the knobs. They used to yell at me, to readjust my amp.
     
  9. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    There is this eco need for change. Of all the premium processors out there I see Kemper as the standout replacement for the tube.
     
  10. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Had a 40 watt Studio Pro many years ago. Wow, what a great sounding little Jazz amp. I miss that thing sometimes
     
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  11. ataylor

    ataylor Tele-Meister

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    Right. And honestly, when it comes down to it, a 65 Deluxe Reverb reissue and this new Tone Master variation are both “fakes” in a way — in that they both are visual and tonal reproductions of an amp made in the mid-1960s. One is made in a way more similar to the original but they are both simply products meant to give guitar players the look and feel and sound of a classic amp.

    That’s fair. And my point is that Fender has both the time and resources to make competitive products.

    I’d also suggest that some of what is perceived as “catching up” is just as likely to be Fender waiting to introduce a product or feature to a broader market at a different scale than many smaller companies operate at.
     
  12. ataylor

    ataylor Tele-Meister

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    I will be curious to see how far they extend this series. I would imagine they’ve got a handful of other models waiting in the wings for the next couple NAMM shows.

    If I had to bet, I’d say we see a couple tweed models next. Given the weight (or lack thereof) being a key selling feature, the Bassman has got to be one of those, right? Maybe along with a smaller combo like a Champ or Pro, or something like a Vibrolux?
     
  13. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    The thing with NuTube is that it's analog. It looks like Korg has determined that they are staying all analog with the NuTube-based amps. This includes a NuTube circuit that connects to the power amp, which supposedly mimics the push/pull aspects of a tube power amp, and also looks like it has a traditional'ish negative feedback design, as well.

    While it might be possible to make a new type of hybrid, it probably makes more sense to not mix all three. It looks like Korg is sticking with "the old tech" with the Valvetronix line, with DSP in the preamp, and the 12AX7 for the non-class D power amp.
     
  14. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Tele-Afflicted

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    I had two Bandits and a Supreme XL head, and I think that the Studio Pro sounded the best. I miss mine, but I gave it to my best student, who didn't have much money. So, at least I feel like it went to a good home.
     
  15. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Got that amp new, in the 80s I believe, at the Drum Shoppe in Las Vegas. One of the few new amps I ever bought. It was to be a "lounge amp", easy to maneuver in and out of casinos and valet zones, taxis. Thought I'd sell it in a few months, but it sounded so good I kept it til it just wore out. Should have got a cap job for it ... replaced it w a MusicMan I already had (bought new in the early 80s) that did sound a little better. But just a little.
     
  16. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

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    So who all is going to try one out? And if you like it, are you going to bring it home?
     
  17. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Tele-Afflicted

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    I had a MusicMan RD50 1-12 that I got in the early 80's and played until 2003. It was another amp that I should have never sold. The only power tubes that were quiet in it, were the Tung Sol 5881's.
     
  18. JDB2

    JDB2 Tele-Meister

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    Fender obviously can do whatever they want with their trademarks but it pains me to see the name of the great hand-wired, dual channel, custom shop, 100 watt powerhouse "Tone-Master" amps designed by Bruce Zinky in the 1990s being repurposed to indicate a faux digital copy of a Deluxe Reverb or Twin Reverb.

    DMWxeSdX4AELFVT.jpg
     
  19. 41144

    41144 Tele-Holic

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    Knopflerstyle ... great post and, coincidently, earlier yesterday (c. 10:00 UTC) I got an email from another major UK retailer about them ... strange that the UK seemed to have got to hear about these before USA?

    Strikes me that Fender are just filling a market void here, an easy comparison would be Vox putting out the VR series (AC15 & 30s) a few years ago .... all the bling (take note whoever it was that put up that recent thread about narcissism :confused:) if not the weight and tone. But, like the Andertons video, their tone is certainly good enough for home/garage band jams and, certainly as in the case of the AC30VR, could be gigged in a small venue.

    ie. No doubt Fender have done their market research and there's the potential to sell a load of them regardless of the speakers used or the lack of tubes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    KnopflerStyle likes this.
  20. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I will absolutely try one of these out. Almost 0 chance I would buy one though as I don't actually need an amp. But they are interesting enough I will definitely make a point of braving GC or whatever to plug into one.

    If my tube amp blows up then I might seriously consider one of these or a Nextone if they blew me away. I have 0 fear my tube amp will blow up any time before my kid goes to college though. (He's going into first grade.)
     
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