New Fender Deluxe and Twin 100% Digital....

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by KnopflerStyle, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    "Also it sounds better with this iron tone block I stuck in the back of the cab... more mass, more low end. You can also use bricks though, in a pinch."
     
  2. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

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    Eh, they are packaged as if its the first time someone has designed a much lighter, cheaper Twin using modelling technology and solid state circuits...I think we are at least 20 years into this product segment? I agree these are a perversion of the famous Twin and Deluxe names - Mustangs in Twin/Deluxe clothing. Fender can do better.

    PS - we pretty much have to restate this in every comparison thread: recordings are useless. Any differentiating information is lost in the recording, much less the playback - we are hearing the recording equipment and playback equipment as much or more than the source...

    PPS - I can buy a real Twin or Deluxe for less dollars, all day.
     
  3. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I find it funny that so many are judging these inferior without trying them.

    So much fear of the new.
     
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  4. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Mitchell used to put several lbs of Huntington Beach sand in the bottoms of their Bass cabs, if I remember correctly. (I think I visited their storage unit/workshop ... my memories regarding the 70s are a bit iffy).
     
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  5. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    Fear of the new? Nope. Just have never seen anything as good as tube sound despite decades of promises from amp makers. If they had done it, we'd all own one and talk about how we don't miss those old useless heavy unreliable tube amps.

    Well, how about this then. I'll go play one in store. If it is every bit as good and real as a tube Deluxe, I'll buy you one. If it's not, you buy me a DRRI. Any takers?

    And I am an honest person.
     
  6. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    Vox introduced this concept with the VR and i think Boss did it with the blues cube.

    I think its probably one of the correct way to sell digital amps.

    * Simple (to me very important, hate bluetooth, telephone apps, cheap options that i will never use...etc
    * Good quality materials as a valve one, why valve amps should have better cabinets, speakers, grill, knobs, etc.
    * Nice sound
    * 1 or 2 good quality effects.
    * Looks good, vintage, like a real amp.
    * You can create boutique staff probably impossible to carry on or buy due its price (cant play at low volume also). For example: Bassman, super six reverb. indeed the twin reverb is not a good option at home even if you gig frequently without help of your drummer.

    i would pay not more than 65% of the valve option for this concept. even at 50% of the DRRI price i could find great valve options.
     
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  7. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    Impossible to measure.
     
  8. keithb7

    keithb7 Friend of Leo's

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    Is it just me or does the Deluxe appear as large as the Twin R in this video:

     
  9. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

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    Not fear of the new.
    Just logical reasoning that these are under-featured and over-priced.
     
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  10. 8trackmind

    8trackmind Tele-Meister

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    Thanks but no. I went down the digital dirt road in the 90s, I'm completely content with the caveman technology I have now.
    I still record with an ancient POD, but live, I'll stick to tubes.
     
  11. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    The Twin sounds the best out of all the amps in the video. The cab sim in particularly is impressive. The actual DRRI is the runner-up.

    That said, I'm probably the one weirdo who feel that Fender BF amps in general have a certain shrillness, and that shrillness is what the Tonemaster Deluxe seems to portray 'flawlessly'. I attribute the shrillness to the bright cap and anemic Jensen speaker that is commonly found in the reissues. I love my DRRI, but only because I did a speaker swap to a ceramic Weber Amsterdam, and installed TAD power tubes.

    I doubt these amps are marketed towards the guys here who already own tube amps. Anything that emulates the sound will always run into resistance from the tube amp aficionado. It goes beyond 'tone' or the 'sacrilege' of the badge/name. It's about the tactility of the 'experience' of owning and playing through a tube amp.

    If anything, they're probably aimed at people who like the ballpark BF tone, and have no love for their attendant weight, especially Twin reverbs. How many of us have shifted our buying habits towards smaller heads or combos due to weight? This is Fender responding to that, and perhaps to the increasingly ubiquitous modelling amps that almost always have a BF patch.

    That said, I'd happily audition these amps and keep my mind open, and ready to be surprised whether positively or negatively.
     
  12. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    Don't need to measure anything except my own feeling about it and how whether or not it could replace my tube Deluxe. Because I'll dump a heavy, maintenance-needing device for a light stone-solid one in a minute. But only if the new one is indistinguishable, sound and feel-wise, and in the way it takes pedals.
     
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  13. dreamingtele

    dreamingtele Friend of Leo's

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    The market of these amps are for the likes of me who will not have access to a REAL Twin due to price, but will get this in the used market to get as close as I can get to a Twin.. but then again, my dream amp is not a Twin, but a 59 Bassman.. now if they can do a Bassman...

    In all my years of playing and different salary levels, I have never been able to buy a tube amp, I tried saving for just a Pro Jr, but when I have the money, I felt that I wont get the full use of it and have used the money to get a higher end guitar instead.. one day last year, I was really determined to buy a tube amp, but bought a Vox AD50VT instead, cheaper and the Boutique Clean setting sounded so good, I never looked further.. and saved some pocket change for me and my wife and a nice steak dinner out..

    I am ampless right now because I sold that amp for financial reasons, and now in the market for a small amp that I can still use at home, and bring it to the venue mic'ed.. the one amp that comes to mind thats very affordable and wont break and have great reviews is the Vox Pathfinder 15, if I can find one.. solid state yes, small yes, light yes, cheap, yes, but sound good? yes..

    If I had real money to work with, I wanted the Kemper and told myself that I will only have 3-4 models in there, a Bassman, Twin, AC30 and a JCM800.. thats all.. Im not a fiddler too, I sold my DD500 and got a DD20 because thats my limit of fiddling, and I have a small family so I wont have the time to go deep into the settings to tweak a millisecond of delay.. same with amp modellers so yeah..

    This might just fit the bill for me, but only in the used market..
     
  14. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Holic

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    It seems to me the main advantage is the weight reduction. It is a big consideration for me at my age, but my Monoprice 15 watt only weighs 25lbs and it's all tube and sounds great. The Twin could be a good option if you need a lot of headroom in a light package, I guess.
     
  15. EsquireBoy

    EsquireBoy Tele-Meister

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    I happen to have an old pathfinder 15 that I bought 15 years ago. It is the only SS amp I own. It actually sounds pretty good, and is surprisingly loud for its size and wattage.
    I would say that it does not sound less good than my tube amps, but definitely different: a more direct tone, with faster transients and no sag or chewiness at all. This is what one would call « cold » sounding I guess. It can be good in certain contexts, when using long delays and reverbs for instance. But I can come closer to a tube-like response by using a preamp pedal in front (Hudson Broadcast or Fairfield barbershop work great for that purpose).
    In the end, and in all subjectivity, I get more pleasure playing through my little 5f2 clone: same size, same weight, same volume, but sweeter sounding to my ears.
     
  16. nosuch

    nosuch Friend of Leo's

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    Not a bad idea IMHO. It can take old guys like me ("I need only one good tone") the digital ANGST as it looks like a real amp and won't overtstrain someone like me with million features I'd never use.

    A twin that weighs only 15 kg – I want to try that!
     
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  17. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Watched a small club gig this week with a blues guitarist, often playing exposed.

    I assumed his amp, which was obscured visually, was a Tweed Fender. Later, I found it was a Blues Cube Artist I would never have known. I'll bet he likes not just the tone, but also the reliability and volume flexibility.

    We listen with our ears much of the time.
     
  18. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Poster Extraordinaire

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    Exactly. Someone posted that Mark Knopfler will tour with a Kemper but it was noted that it took his guitar tech and Knopfler 6 months to tweak it to their satisfaction. I recently sold my Helix because I was tired of tweaking, knob turning and seeking the perfect (insert here) tone. As I posted when I was in the thrall of the Helix, it's hard to distinguish it in a mix but it still lacked something compared to my tube amps. Not just the sound but how you respond to it while playing.
    One thing I like about these new amps it that, while emulating a specific amp, they don't muck it up with a bunch of onboard effects either. It's solely an amp.
    My best friend is an excellent blues/jazz pianist, B3 player and well known in this area (but retired from gigging). He loved evenings when he was playing a real piano or when he brought his Hammond out. He called his other keyboards "plastic fantastic" and he really said it never felt the same to play them vs the real thing.
    I am not going back digital anytime soon but, if I did, I would take a serious look at the Tone Master DR which, to me, sounded better in that Anderton's video.
     
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  19. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Poster Extraordinaire

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    LMAO. So true. Because Fender didn't select a specific speaker to work with the software. :rolleyes:
    However, that's not much different then buying a custom shop guitar and then immediately swapping pickups or replacing the saddles, bridge etc. Because we all have Eric Johnson's finely tuned ears.
     
  20. Mpd2378

    Mpd2378 TDPRI Member

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    I think an update of the tube amps to include a built in attenuator/power scaling would have been more worthwhile, I have owned various modelling amps and have sold them, due to more time spent tweaking rather than playing.
    Plus the price is IMHO, a bit to high, we are in the realms of real tube amps, which I think will lead to a hard choice between the real deal tube amp or the s/s modeller.
     
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