New DR RI and Fuzz

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by TelecastrMastr, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. TelecastrMastr

    TelecastrMastr TDPRI Member

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    Hey all, I just bought a Deluxe Reverb Reissue brand new out of the box. I bought it to be a live amp that I’d use instead of my ‘74 Twin Reverb.

    I played it clean for a while and thought it sounded great. Plugged it into my pedal setup that I use with my Twin, and I can’t believe how unbearable the trebles are, and how fizzy my fuzz pedal sounds (I use an EQD Spires that I love with my Twin).

    I’m worried that I may need to return the amp because it’s just so ear piercing even as I adjust the EQ.

    I’ve heard a lot of people say that they hate how much Mids a DR has, and that had me concerned that that might be the issue, but I’ve also heard people talk about the need to break in the speaker to mellow it out. I’ve got a 90 day return policy, so that gives me some time.

    Has anyone else had a similar experience with the new DRs? Any thoughts to save this confused soul?

    Thanks!
     
  2. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    Firstly, get the amp biased. There many U-Toob videos explaining this.

    Secondly, everyone will tell you to “clip the bright cap”. Mostly these are people who don’t own or have never played through a DRRI (Deluxe Reverb Re Issue). But they read it somewhere on the inter-webs so it must be true.

    Thirdly, what speakers are in the Twin? We’ll assume the DRRI has the C12K.

    Fourthly, back to the dreaded and greatly feared bright cap. Turn off the reverb. Do an A/B test, switching back and forth between the Normal and Vibrato channel. Which channel sounds better? Hey, maybe it *IS* the bright cap, which exists only in the Vibrato channel and its effect goes away as the volume increases to about “4”.

    Fifthly, as to the midrange. A DRRI has no Mid knob, but the conventional wisdom is the midrange is set to “7” internally.
     
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  3. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    What speaker.
    I agree, you may need to bias the amp. If anything, the DR should be less sterile than the twin for sure. Unless you have one of the other speaker offerings like a Jensen P12Q or something.
    But maybe you just need to adjust the EQ/gain/levels on your pedals? How much have you done with that?
    I've never heard anybody say a DR has "too much mids" What I do hear about BF style amps in general is they are too "Scooped " in the mids.
    What Twin do you have? Any normal Twin should be similar to the DR with EQ levels...
    I play my DR with something like: V=3, T=5+, B=4
     
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  4. telepraise

    telepraise Tele-Holic

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    I have a DRRI and will echo what's already been said here. First, try the left channel, it's more bassmanesque. Schmee is right on, a Deluxe is a very mid-scooped, it's part of the mojo of the amp. Most likely culprit is the speaker. If it's a Jensen alnico, it'll be bright and clear even after it's broken in. If it's a C-Rex, it's going to have a very tight and powerful bass and not a lot of sparkle on top. Whatever the speaker, it's going to need to be broken in before it gets that juicy, full tone. There's lots of threads about which replacement speakers sing the sweetest in a Deluxe Reverb. If you're going to gig it, you'll likely want a different speaker, I'm partial to the Emi Allesandro myself.
     
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  5. TelecastrMastr

    TelecastrMastr TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for all the answers so far! To answer as much as I can,

    My Twin has one original Fender label speaker, and one Electro-voice speaker. It’s also had the BF mods done.

    the DRRI has a Jensen in it. I believe it’s the C12K

    I assumed the bias on the amp would be pretty even since it was brand new, it could be a bit off.

    OKAY! BREAKTHROUGH! I tried out the normal channel and my fuzz sounds fantastic. Mind blowingly different. So there’s a cap somewhere in the amp that makes the Vib channel ALWAYS on bright? That has to be the problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  6. milocj

    milocj Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Yep, the Vibrato channel has the bright cap which is the same thing as using your Twin with the bright switch engaged. It can be clipped though your ability to work safely around high voltages will determine whether or not you take it to a tech to have it done.
     
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  7. TelecastrMastr

    TelecastrMastr TDPRI Member

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    Interesting... Are there any other distinct differences between the two channels or would just playing the normal channel and not use the reverb work okay as a solution?
     
  8. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Brand new? That speaker needs to be pounded for a little while to break in and catch up with the speakers in the Twin.

    The Deluxe Reverb is a bright amp to begin with, brand new speakers tend to be a touch harsh, adding to the non-joy. You could try testing the Deluxe with one of the Twin's speakers (run a long speaker cable, or put the amps back to back. I think it's one reason that Celestion speakers seem to be getting more and more popular with Deluxe's. But, I say give the stock speaker some time.

    I had a DRRi for a while. I bought it used and the speaker, a C12K sounded great in that amp. It worked with all kinds of fuzz pedals. Keep the faith. The Deluxe Reverb is a classic amp and sounds great with all kinds of pedals.
     
  9. Bob M

    Bob M Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    I have a new DRRI and found it no harsher sounding than my ‘65 Tremolux. The vibrato channel is a little bright, especially with my Jag and Jazzmaster, but the controls on the amp are very accurate and I am able to keep everything under control. So far I am very impressed with the amp. Hope you are able to make yours work for you.
     
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  10. LuthRavin

    LuthRavin Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Mine was bright when I got it..I re-biased it..warmed it up from the brrrr cold factory settings..tossed in some older Raytheon 6v6's..pulled V1 and I was off to the races!! Never once thought about changing the speaker, that C12K worked just fine..patients and playing it will pay dividends. I used a Ts9 in front of mine when the volume needed to be lower than 4..after turning it up past 5-7 I just used the amps grit..give it time..make some adjustments and you'll be fine
     
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  11. Tenderfoot

    Tenderfoot Tele-Holic

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    LuthRavin, what was the cold bias and the warm bias you ended up with? Thanks!
     
  12. LuthRavin

    LuthRavin Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    It's been awhile now 5-6 years ago..thinking it was around 18-19 on the cold side and I warmed it up to around 24-25 it went from blah..to OMG and I never had to touch it again(gigged with it this way countless times)..I purchased two bias meters that plug into the 6v6 sockets one at a time(you can only do one at a time while the other tube remained in the socket) dialed it in using a screw driver in the bias pot on the bottom side of the chassis..and just started experimenting with it..I watched some vids on it and I'm not leery of working on any of my gear.. I changed NOTHING inside the circuit other than warming it up..extreamly reliable..no TUBE issues..the Raytheons were from the mid 50's..not sure how the current 6v6's will adapt, but probably with the same result..
     
  13. Tenderfoot

    Tenderfoot Tele-Holic

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    Thanks for the reply LuthRavin. I have the Fender Custom 64 Deluxe Reverb Handwired I got Christmas of 2018 and after recently replacing the 6V6S GT's with NOS Sylvania 6V6GT Black Plates (circa mid 1950's) I biased the tubes for 23ma (using same method you described but using one bias probe and my multimeter). The amp schematic calls for 23ma for 6V6GT's even though Fender puts 6V6S GT's in the amp. With 23ma my plate voltage is 425VDC and after a week of operation there has been no issue with the NOS tubes, i.e., no red plating or sound issues.

    Since 18-19ma was cold and going to 24-25 made your amp go from blah to OMG; I'm thinking that the factory setting of 23ma (for my amp) is more than likely the sweet spot for tone and not detrimental to the power tubes. However, Fender being who they are might have set the bias cold on the 64 DRHW. All being said, do you (or anyone reading this thread) feel that adding another ma or two would improve an already acceptable sound? If I am just a tad below the sweet spot then it would be worth the effort to rebias.

    Regards,

    Tenderfoot
     
  14. LuthRavin

    LuthRavin Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Yes, Tenderfoot, I'm thinking that with your handwired amp they took their time putting it together and set the bias closer to what the schematic originally called for..in my DRRI they were kicking these out as fast as they could and intentionally set them on the colder side to make sure they held their warranty without returns..Saying all of that if I had yours and was happy with it's "tone" I might leave it, if at 23ma was factory set..mine at 24-25 was no longer shrill and treblely..also not sure if yours comes with C12K as mine..yours might be alnico or something different from the re-issue..thats a nice amp you have there!! add...My speaker was broke in before I changed the bias..
     
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  15. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    Put a Greeback in there.

    They cost 130$ or so....Problem solved.
     
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  16. Tenderfoot

    Tenderfoot Tele-Holic

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    Thanks LuthRavin, your right. If I'm happy with the tone I'm getting, then it's best to leave things as they are (especially since the bias matches the schematic). I have been switching between the Jensen C12Q that came with the amp and a George Alessandro SC-64. Both speakers are a good match for the amp. For now I have reinstalled the C12Q as its better for home playing...if I should ever gig again then the SC-64 would be my choice as it has a lot more headroom.
     
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  17. Tenderfoot

    Tenderfoot Tele-Holic

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    Thanks The-Kid, I had thought about getting a Greenback as that's the speaker that Fender put in the custom shop built 64 DRHW which went for (IIRC) $10K.
     
  18. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Yea, creamback or greenback...C12k spikey in upper mids
     
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  19. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    If you do get these....

    The watchtowers.

    They are Celestion G12C Greenbacks made for Marshall under Celestion. Made to emulate one of Marshalls set of 412s in Marshalls vault....

    They dont make them anymore and these are the last ones rebranded with stickers and such. Look up my thread at strat talk. I uncovered these under the sticker and they were indeed the Marshall G12Cs.

    Dude quickly sold out of his 16ohm versions after I posted thread so......now he has 8ohms only left.....

    Um get one or two......NOAW....


    Hell I may get a spare one in 8ohm for my Princeton just to have around. Stupid good price.

    https://www.mojotone.com/Speakers_x/Mojotone_x/Mojotone-Watchtower-25W-12-Speaker-by-Celestion-8-OHM

    https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/pulled-the-trigger-on-watchtower-mojotone-speaker.521210/
     
  20. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    Also consider the V30 as its a great speaker has more low end if wanted or needed and excellent highs as well. More wattage for more headroom etc etc

    Stupid low price too

    From Avatar

    The G12H30 is also on sale and I would probably say this one is a super good option for a DRRI as well. Maybe better than the other two I mentioned so far. Stupid low price from Avatar too


    @Tenderfoot
    https://avatarspeakers.com/shop/speakers/new-old-stock/vintage-30-new-old-stock/

    https://avatarspeakers.com/shop/speakers/celestion-speakers/g12h30-anniversary-new-old-stock/
     
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