New CuNiFe WRHB Electronics Questions

[Wazzou]

Hello,

I have a 2011 AVRI '72 Telecaster Custom. I just installed the CuNiFe WRHB reissue in the neck position. The bridge pickup is still the stock pickup (I love it). Since I was under the hood with a soldering iron, I decided to upgrade pots/caps/wiring:

*For the neck pickup I installed 500k pots
*For the bridge, new 250k pots
*All pots are CTS audio taper (more on this in a minute)
*.022 Orange Drop caps
*I replaced all wiring from the switch and jack and between pots to Gavitt cloth covered wiring
*Installed the new WRHB. DCR is 10.41

I really like this new neck pickup over the stock fake WRHB that came with the guitar. But there are a couple of questions I have:

1) Is it ok that I installed non-matching pots? Since I went to 500k in the neck should I have done the same with the pots for the single coil? I ask this because in the middle position, the volume/output is weaker than in either the neck or bridge alone. I have to turn the Bridge volume down to 9 to get the output to match the either the neck or bridge positions alone. My guess is that the neck pickup is dominating at that point.
*I think this might be because the pots are not the same. Thoughts?
2) I realized the hard way that linear pots are better for volume. Below 7 or 6, the volume dials are useless.
3) I've read that the new reissues of these guitars (American Original 70s) and the originals have 1-meg pot or pots in them.
*Can someone tell me if only the neck is a 1-Meg or are both volumes 1-Meg? Are all 4 pots 1-meg? I ask this because I feel that the neck pickup is still a little dark with the 500k pot. I want this guitar to be spec'd like the originals and reissues.

Finally, I've read some threads on here about people's experiences with the WRHB reissues. I agree that the low stings (E/A) get flubby/too bassy when I crank my amp past 5. I have a Princeton Reverb RI. Really, the problem is the Low E. When playing A string power chords, it's not really a problem. Is there anything that can be done about this? Maybe the WRHB is just not really good with amps in the breakup zone, as Telenator has said in his comments to these threads, though I would say when I don't include the Low E it sounds great at those volumes. Plus, there is always the SC in the bridge, which is REALLY good at breakup.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[bender66]

It's ok that you have unmatched valued pots. You should expect to do some adjustment when in that middle position.

The originals had 1Meg for both, that doesnt mean you'd appreciate them just because Fender did it this way. I thought the same when wiring a Firebird because " Gibson used 300k pots". Sounds like arse to me.

I dislike audio taper too. My caveman brain doesnt like the sudden drop either way.

Didnt you add the cunife? Why worry about the RI WRHB then? Dial in your new one & forget it.

Love me a Custom.

 

[papa32203]

Drop the bass side of the neck humbucker to try and get less flub

 

[Wazzou]

It's ok that you have unmatched valued pots. You should expect to do some adjustment when in that middle position.

The originals had 1Meg for both, that doesnt mean you'd appreciate them just because Fender did it this way. I thought the same when wiring a Firebird because " Gibson used 300k pots". Sounds like arse to me.

I dislike audio taper too. My caveman brain doesnt like the sudden drop either way.

Didnt you add the cunife? Why worry about the RI WRHB then? Dial in your new one & forget it.

Love me a Custom.

Thanks for your comments. I think the last part of my post may be confusing. I'm using the WRHB and CuNiFe terms interchangeably in my post. Yes I'm only interested in talking/learning about the new CuNiFe reissues.

 

[SbS]

I'm using 1M pots in neck and 500K in bridge (having a PAF style humbucker there though). I think it balances quite well. It's a partscaster though, so not a factory setup. But imo1meg pots really opened up the WRHB sound clarity wise.

Neck WRHB bass is little flubby and wobbly. It's easy to adjust bass side too high at first, because it sounds kinda interesting alone. But is difficult to control in a band mix.

Yeah, being wide range there are pros and cons. Highs might be clear and sparkly, and lows excessive and wobbly at the same time. So it's good to use Telenstor's instructions, own ears and time to get it where you like it. With your gear.

I'm still kinda on the way..

 

[badscrew_projects]

Your pickups might be out of phase

 

[red57strat]

I believe that Fender uses 1 meg (neck) and 250k (bridge) pots (all audio taper) in these now, so the different pots shouldn't be an issue.

It sounds like the pickups are out of phase.

 

[SbS]

One quick way to test if pickups are out of phase. When in middle position and turning one of the volume knobs just a little bit down, like close to 9.. if the tone actually becomes stronger and fatter, they're probably out of phase.

 

[Wazzou]

Thanks for your comments. I guess my pickups are out of phase, because that is exactly what is happening in the middle position. How do I fix that? Does it mean my neck pickup was built upside down? If I rotate it the other way, it will say Fender upside down.

 

[Wazzou]

So, I reversed the bridge wires, black hot/yellow ground. This fixed the "out of phase" problem. Now the volume is equally matched between the 2 pickups, when in the middle position. But now I have a really noisy bridge pickup. So now the bridge is not sufficiently grounded. I'm going to switch them back to yellow hot/black ground.

I think Fender installed the cover wrong on the WRHB. I think it's flipped 180. Looks like I can unsolder the cover and rotate it so I can rotate the pickup 180 and have the cover oriented correctly. What a hassle.

I wondered why the wire for the WRHB seemed to be coming from the wrong side, when I first installed the pickup. From my experience, that wire should be coming from the "north" or switch side of the pickup. That is how I installed it at first based on the orientation of the original pickup, but then I flipped the pickguard over and saw that "Fender" was upside down, so I reversed it. I thought, "this is odd."

I'll report back once I return the bridge wiring to normal and rotate the neck pickup 180.

 

[badscrew_projects]

No, rotating the pickup does nothing to the out of phase problem...

 

[Wazzou]

Then why would it be out of phase? Something is wrong with the internal wiring of the pickup?

 

[badscrew_projects]

Nothing wrong, they just weren't made to work together.
You can rewire either one of the pickups to switch the phases, but it's possible you'll need to rewire the pickup's casing connection to the ground too.

 

[bender66]

Slow down pardner.

 

[tele_savales]

This is a pretty decent explanation of polarity.

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2017/01/23/whats-deal-polarity/

 

[tele_savales]

In that article it describes Problem #3- pickups in phase but not hum canceling. That sounds like your issue.

 

[Wazzou]

I'm not having a problem with hum. The guitar is quiet as all get out. I'm having the problem where I have to turn the bridge pickup to 9 to equal the output of the neck pickup on 10. Backwards, right? If this is a sure sign of the pickups being out of phase, then they must be out of phase I guess. At least 3 people in this thread seem to think so. Question is why are they out of phase?

Badscrew, I appreciate your thoughts, but I just don't see why these pickups are not meant to work together. A tele pickup is a tele pickup, generally speaking right? And Fender sells these CuNiFe pups separately so folks like me can upgrade previous reisssues of this style of guitar that came with the incorrect PAF style pickup. They should work together in the same guitar, especially a Fender Telecaster.

So here's where I'm at:
1)Unequal volume output in the middle position (initial problem). Had to turn bridge volume to 9 to make output equal.
2)I reversed the bridge pickup (black-hot/yellow-ground), and the unmatched volume problem was gone. But I had a very noisy bridge pickup.
3)Returned bridge pickup to standard wiring. Back to where I started.
4)Rotated neck pickup (cover upside down). Made no difference. (As stated by Badscrew).

The neck pickup has been built incorrectly, right? I shouldn't have to wire my bridge pickup to make things in phase.

Should I send the WRHB back to Fender?

 

[Wazzou]

I have a feeling that fender sent me a bridge WRHB mislabeled as a neck pickup. That would explain the out of phase thing wouldn't it?

So one possible work around came to me, but I'm not sure I want to do it. Reverse the bridge wires again, making the black wire the hot wire, yellow becomes ground. Then cut the existing ground jumper from the black wire to the pickup plate. And install a new ground jumper from the yellow wire to plate or bridge. That should do it right? The pickups did sound in phase with the bridge wire switched, problem was the pickup was no longer grounded.

I don't really want to do that to the bridge pickup though...but probably not a big deal.

Any other remedy ideas?

For those who may not know, the new WRHB cunife pup comes with only 2 leads. A white lead wire and a bare ground wire. I was surprised, I thought they were supposed to have 3 wires: black/brown/bare. I looked at images on google though, and sure enough, this is correct with the original 70s pups - 2 wires, one bare.

I think I have a bridge pickup incorrectly labeled as a neck pup.

 

[SbS]

If they're out of phase it's not actually matter of uneaqual volume. It's how pickups are cancelling each other's signal. That creates weaker sound. Some like it, Peter Green was the famous user. Turning another volume down a little bit just alters how signals are cancelled, so it's perceived 'stonger'.

Many of the times guitar pickups are in phase and hum cancelling. Physics are the same, but instead of cancelling each other's signal, they're now cancelling hum.

Then 3rd possibility is in phase, but not hum cancelling.

Different manufacturers and eras wind pickups differently and magnet polarities are different too. That's just the way it is.

The best case, one of the pickups have separate ground, then it's posdible to flip leads without grounding issues. CuNiFe doesn't have that.

I had a separate ground wire in bridge pickup. Then made out of phase switch to have them in phase or out of phase. It's good to read that Fralin article thoroughly before deciding the next step.

 

[badscrew_projects]

Badscrew, I appreciate your thoughts, but I just don't see why these pickups are not meant to work together. A tele pickup is a tele pickup, generally speaking right?

Should I send the WRHB back to Fender?

These two pickups are made so these two are putting out signals out of phase if used in the same guitar. They weren't designed to work together as a set, but in two different sets with their corresponding counterpart, that's all.

It IS POSSIBLE to rewire the pickups so they work in phase one to another