New Amp Day - Quilter Aviator Cub

[JDB2]

FWIW my Tone Block 202 has a similar control layout as the Cub (can’t speak as to the circuit though) and I wouldn’t call it a bright amp. It has plenty of boost and cut available in all three EQ controls and I can make it as bright or as dark or as full or as scooped as I want. It’s running through an open back 1x12 with Celestion alnico Cream or a closed back 2x12 with V30s.

Maybe the difference is in the circuit, the speaker, ours ears, or our expectations, or some combination of those factors.

 

[jellodog]

@jgwcaster Over at TGP, I saw more than one post saying that after a couple of weeks playing, the Cub speaker was tamed; so there's a good chance you will experience a little more warmth with 20 or more playing hours on the clock.

Whilst it does sound like you've tried most combinations of the EQ controls, the only other advice I can give is: dial in with your ears and not your eyes. I'm constantly surprised when I use this approach, both with Quilters and digital modellers like the Helix.

Incidentally, I've owned the TMDR, which I've since sold. I now own 2 Quilters with another (Mach 3) on the way. If they were impossible to dial in, or sounded disappointing, I honestly wouldn't be be ordering more; but I am.

Having said that, I use a variety of speakers and cabs with my Quilter amps. I can totally recommend the Celestion Neo Creamback with the Cub circuit. That can definitely sound nice and warm (as well as super light) with any model from the recent Quilter lineup.

 

[PhredE]

I also agree re: the comments about the speaker. Just a couple points:

I doubt it is fully broken in yet. You might try the old tricks of playing it near loudly covered in blankets, pointing down into a carpeted floor, etc. If it is an Emi design, think high power, high efficiency, etc. They always take some time to break in. Most of those types of guitar speakers are always pretty 'proud' in the upper mids. Having something that is not so upper mid forward, might really make a big difference in your case for what you are trying to achieve (IMO). At the same time, I have found that most amp manufacturers rarely include a really good quality driver in a stock amp (unless you pay premium $ -- and even then, supposedly 'great' speakers don't always stand up to the hype). Sometimes, if you want a really good one, you just have to go buy one.

I see some similarity here with new Joyo AS owners. It seems like, inevitably, the new user sits down and spins all the dials in every which way, and is basically confounded for the first, I dunno, several hours or even days. Eventually, I had to do as jellodog suggests, just spin the dials after careful listening without having any preconception about what I thought the dials should do. A powerful active EQ (or EQ pedal even) is a very powerful beast to tame sometimes.

It's too bad that the Quilter doesn't offer an ext speaker jack. Just being able to try different speakers on the fly would help clear some of the auditory 'fog' in cases like this. I am a big believer in not being anchored to one particular speaker. Having options = good.

 

[Peegoo]

Now I have learned that a lot of time I just need to tweak my mid-range just a bit so that I can cut through the mix.

This is the main reason the Tube Screamer (and the millions of clones) are so popular: press a button and you're cutting through with a midrange bump.

It's interesting that the older MicroPro Mach 2 series sports a pair of Celestion 8" TF0818s in a sealed (ported also?) enclosure.

Sorry to hear you're not bonding with the Cub. I've never played one.

The Aviator I have is a two channel (100w x 2) amplifier through a single Celestion 8" speaker in a completely sealed/non-ported cabinet. The amp is smaller and a lot lighter (only 25 lbs) than my PRRI. It's really easy to get just about any sound out of this thing. I've taken this to loud jams and it's never had a problem keeping up with large/heavy 2x12 combos. Puzzling to me why Quilter decided to stop producing these, because they are really fine amps and not much larger than a Fender Champ.

 

[PhredE]

Edit (to Peegoo)..

Nah, all good no worries. Just trying to demystify the EQ section a bit. Maybe having those 3 separate preamp circuits is a big part of the way things work the way they do. Not ragging on it, just trying to understand it a bit better.

I simulate this basic approach but using different 'pieces'. Basic architecture is very similar in general though. I like small and powerful too:

https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DI5 (200W nominally, into 4 ohms)
+
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S8NZTZD/?tag=tdpri-20
(Or Joyo AC Tone) -- ok, nothing new to anyone there.
+
One of 4 speaker cabs I built (guitar drivers and a couple PA drivers -- lots of flexibility and power handling when needed).

(+ a few other pedals, but that's the basic stuff).

Powerful, light, good sound, etc. - what the heck?? Oh, I'm a cheapskate these days mostly out of necessity.

 

[timbgtr]

I was trying all three. We spent the most time in the black channel. At home I moved between all three a lot. There is a real distinctness between them that is very good.

After much and continuing experimentation, I’ve found my Tele sounds great in the QAC tweed channel, gain and limiter around 3 o’clock, mid rolled off a bit and treble actually up a smidgen. The tweed channel cuts the highs back, but I tweak them back up just a little to get a touch of BF tone. Obviously, YMMV.

 

[jgwcaster]

@jgwcaster When you were using the Cub with the PA at church via the direct out, how high was the line out Sig Vol knob set?

I'm curious about that, because with other Quilters (as well as digital amps), I've found that if your line out signal isn't strong enough, you tend to lose bass and fat mids which results in a thinner shrill tone at the board.

I wonder if you can significantly raise your line out signal to the PA / Sound guy and have him lower the input level or pad at his end, to see if that positively affects your overall EQ curve and tone shape.

That might have been the problem, we ran the line out only as high as noon. So there was definitely some more room there to try louder. This is where my ignorance comes in, I always thought one of the benefits of solid-state was consistently of sound through the volume sweep.

 

[Fret Wilkes]

Part of me wants to get the Tonemaster. I have to be honest I am a bit shy at this point, thinking it might be bright too, or close but not really the fender sound. Or that it kinda takes overdrives but kinda not.

Last night did confirm that I should get a direct option. The champ just sounded better but we just have it on the stage pointing into the sanctuary. Sound guy played it and the Quilter so I could walk around and hear them. Champ was not as full as the Quilter, but even just on a clean tone was warmer and sweeter. However, I got to experience the walking into the path of the amp speaker projection and out of it and that was no good.

Its a small sanctuary. We do not need tons of volume, but if I can pick up something that scratches my personal preferences and can go direct (and be its own monitor) that's a good thing.

Maybe the Tonemaster DR is what I need to look at. Maybe and Strymon Iridium with a FRFR. I don't know. Maybe a Real Deluxe Reverb or other tube monster with a two notes box. (That's a lot of cash though.)

I'm going to sound like a TM Salesman here, but IMHO the TMDR is exactly what you are looking for. If you loved the tube Deluxe Reverb, you get that sound, and more. Built in power scaling, built in IR out that sounds excellent, light weight! You can update the firmware to have the "bright cap clipped" on the standard model, and I believe it comes that way on the Blonde model, though if you liked the sound of the regular Deluxe Reverb in the store, then you don't mind the bright cap.

Fender amps can get bright, yes. My 68 Twin can get bright, the TMTR can get bright. It's a matter of dialing in what you like, and using the tone control on the Tele. This is with any amp though. I think you'll find the TMDR MUCH more intuitive to dial in than the Quilter. If you're familiar with Fender amps, you'll find your sound quickly and get on to playing music. Try it out at GC or wherever. You can most like do it "side by each" the tube model. I think you'll be impressed.

As I stated, I fiddled, and fiddled with the MicroPro Mach II and never really got to where it sound "right" to me. With the TMTR it took me about 10 seconds to get it to what Im used to with my 68. And I was prepared to return it if it didn't sound REALLY close to my 68. I set them up "side by each" and compared. I'm sold on it. But that's me.

Again, good luck with your quest.

 

[JDB2]

This is where my ignorance comes in, I always thought one of the benefits of solid-state was consistently of sound through the volume sweep.

I think that's a separate issue from finding the sweet spot for a line out. I've historically found that more signal is better for a line out up until it overdrives the input it is feeding to.

Incidentally, I think my Tone Block 202 sounds at least different, if not better, at medium/high volume rather than low. I set EQ differently to compensate depending on the SPL.

 

[jgwcaster]

I appreciate everyone's insights. Though I don't think the Aviator Cub is for me, I still want it known that it is a great piece of gear. It really does react like a tube amp. It has a great presence to it. That limiter knob is my favorite feature. I was flummoxed by the eq and perhaps memories of some poor solid-state amps back in the 90s.

I think it can be a great amp for someone who is willing to learn the EQ.

Perhaps I am not all that great at dialing in tone. What I do know is that I don't even have to think about how to set my Champ, it all sounds good. Years ago I sat down in front of a Princeton Reverb, easy to dial in, the Deluxe Reverb was great from the first chord. Perhaps my ears really agree with fender amps and tone stacks. Perhaps I am just too simple a creature to move onto anything more sophisticated.

 

[cousinpaul]

I'm curious about the PA. Is there a graphic EQ set like a smiley face? If the PA is Set up for vocals, it could be messing with your guitar sound.

 

[Sea Devil]

My only experience is with the Mini 101 Reverb, which is explicitly voiced to sound like a Deluxe Reverb. Easy as pie to dial in with the right speaker.

 

[PhredE]

Sorry to hear you're not bonding with the Cub. I've never played one.

The Aviator I have is a two channel (100w x 2) amplifier through a single Celestion 8" speaker in a completely sealed/non-ported cabinet. The amp is smaller and a lot lighter (only 25 lbs) than my PRRI. It's really easy to get just about any sound out of this thing. I've taken this to loud jams and it's never had a problem keeping up with large/heavy 2x12 combos. Puzzling to me why Quilter decided to stop producing these, because they are really fine amps and not much larger than a Fender Champ.

Apologies if I wasn't clear (has happened a lot lately )
I haven't played one either, so I am in the dark as far as first-hand experience goes. I knew about other Quilter 2x8" configs but forgot they made the 1x8" too -- oh well. That speaker must be a real beast. It's the same Celestion TF0818 as used in the 2x8" amp? It's kind of funny to me: a PA woofer appears to offer better sound than the guitar speaker packaged in the Cub (well, perhaps).
I use a 1x8" box with a PA woofer as well (different driver, but overall fairly similar). Works great.

I guess I was trying to reconcile the Cub with previous version(s) of the Aviator. The EQ differences may not even allow a reasonable comparison.. I dunno.

Great question on ending the Aviator I.. I have no answer. I do hope the Cub does well though. It does have a nice set of features+power in a small package. Maybe the speaker is just mis-matched for the voicing of the amp somehow (?) Sometimes, a speaker upgrade solves a lot of problems.

 

[tdarian]

A couple of things…..

I’ve had my Cub since April of this year. The speaker smoothed out considerably over the first couple of weeks, maybe 25 total hours of playing time. I’ve been using PAF range humbuckers as well as P90s. I now run the Treble @ 1 o’clock, Mids @ Noon and Bass @ 10 oclock. I had the Treble below Noon in the beginning.

I recently tried using a Y cable to simultaneously run the Tweed & Blackface. While I didn’t end up changing the EQ, the amp has considerably more apparent gain when run like this and the edge of breakup is way lower in the gain rotation so keep that in mind. Anyway this is certainly worth a try!

I think the Cub responds exceptionally well with drive pedals in front, my favorite so far with the Cub is my Barber Direct Drive v4. I’ve also had great results with delay and reverb pedals in the loop. While the Cub’s reverb is good, I prefer either a Catalinbread Topanga for spring or and older Wet for ambience. The Topanga has a tone control which might be useful to the OP.

I’ve got a few other amps most notably a Redplate RP40 and a Redplate TweedyDrive. Both excellent, but still I get a real kick out of the Cub.

 

[timbgtr]

In addition to running my Tele (TVJ Classic in the neck) in the QAC Tweed, I run my PRS S2 (Fralin Unbuckers) in the Blonde channel and my Strat (Lollar Dirty Blondes) in the Black. Love the amp. Unless they cut the TMDR price in half, my search is over.

 

[Bob Arbogast]

After reading through this thread last night, I broke out my Cub and plugged in. I thought it sounded somewhere between okay and not-so-great. Two caveats:

1. This was the first time I had played my Casino through it.
2. My Teles don't sound that great through the amp either.

BUT in a live setting, the amp sounds just fine! So I'll be hanging on to it.

I do also have a TMDR. I need more live experience with that one to decide which amp is better. Not that it really matters.

Here's something that does matter to me, though: 1 gigging amp + 1 backup amp all together under 45 lbs. (20kg)!

OP, I just noticed you live in Delaware, OH. I lived in Sunbury for 18 years.

 

[jgwcaster]

After reading through this thread last night, I broke out my Cub and plugged in. I thought it sounded somewhere between okay and not-so-great. Two caveats:

1. This was the first time I had played my Casino through it.
2. My Teles don't sound that great through the amp either.

BUT in a live setting, the amp sounds just fine! So I'll be hanging on to it.

I do also have a TMDR. I need more live experience with that one to decide which amp is better. Not that it really matters.

Here's something that does matter to me, though: 1 gigging amp + 1 backup amp all together under 45 lbs. (20kg)!

OP, I just noticed you live in Delaware, OH. I lived in Sunbury for 18 years.

Sunbury is a great place!

I may have judged the Quilter unfairly. The tele is the new guitar and the one I am playing constantly. It is bright in that amp my Strat sounds fine and the p90 guitar sounds fine. But the tele is where I am living.

I am also getting the impression that Quilters really shine in a live band mix, which you would think would be great for our church, but reality is its a small church and a small room. (70 people or so in service). The quilter is probably does not have too much room to really shine the way it can.

I suspect I was trying to get a solution for too many issues. A swissarmy knife. While the Quilter can do many things it seems like it excels in live use.

1. looking for something I can run through the PA at church, providing just enough of my own stage monitoring to not get lost.

2. looking to scratch the itch for a fender sound with a bigger speaker than my Champ, love it but that 8" speaker has limits.

3. I am looking for something I can use headphones with late at night.

4. Something I could hook up to my Mac to tinker with a little recording is a bonus.

I was trying to get the quilter to do 3 out of the 4 where I think I need to look at multiple pieces of gear to do this well.

 

[Robert H.]

You might want to try out a Roland Blues Cube Stage or Artist. I went from a SFPR to the Stage a few years ago. Never looked back.

 

[JDB2]

OP, I just noticed you live in Delaware, OH. I lived in Sunbury for 18 years.

Can't believe I didn't notice that before in the OPs profile. I was born and raised in Delaware, OH and moved west after college. That was about 30 years ago. I used to visit every year until a couple years ago. I do miss central Ohio. There was a good live music scene. I'm not sure home will ever be anyplace else.

 

[D_Malone]

Sunbury is a great place!

I may have judged the Quilter unfairly. The tele is the new guitar and the one I am playing constantly. It is bright in that amp my Strat sounds fine and the p90 guitar sounds fine. But the tele is where I am living.

I am also getting the impression that Quilters really shine in a live band mix, which you would think would be great for our church, but reality is its a small church and a small room. (70 people or so in service). The quilter is probably does not have too much room to really shine the way it can.

I suspect I was trying to get a solution for too many issues. A swissarmy knife. While the Quilter can do many things it seems like it excels in live use.

1. looking for something I can run through the PA at church, providing just enough of my own stage monitoring to not get lost.

2. looking to scratch the itch for a fender sound with a bigger speaker than my Champ, love it but that 8" speaker has limits.

3. I am looking for something I can use headphones with late at night.

4. Something I could hook up to my Mac to tinker with a little recording is a bonus.

I was trying to get the quilter to do 3 out of the 4 where I think I need to look at multiple pieces of gear to do this well.

Have you considered a modeling amp? Not my cup of tea, but it seems like a modeling amp would satisfy all of your needs.