1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

New Alnico Speakers for Hayseed 30

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by thegreatwent, May 19, 2015.

  1. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I currently have two 16 Ohm Celestion Blues wired in parallel.
    I've also tried one Celestion Blue and one Celestion Gold.

    The Celestion Blues and Golds are good speakers, but to my ears don't really impart the chime, creaminess and warmth of what a vintage AC-30 should sound like. They are brighter and more aggressive sounding.

    I'm looking to get two 8 Ohm new production Alnicos and will wire them in series.

    Possible combinations I'm considering are:

    - One 30 watt Scumback Scumnico SC75 and a 30 watt Weber Blue Bell with Pre-Rola dope

    - One 65 watt Scumback Scumnico S75-PVC and a 30 watt Scumnico SC75

    - One Weber Blue Bell 30 watt and one Weber Silver Bell 30 watt

    The Scumnico and Weber pairing seems to be popular among those who have the JMJ-30.

    I'm also very intrigued by the Scumnico combo - getting the low end from an SC75 and the upper mid chime from the S75-PVC. The clips on the site sound great - real smooth and warm with all the complex stuff that goes on in the mids and upper mids.

    I contacted Rob at Valvetech to get some input from him and he said the Scumnico's were the smoothest sounding speakers he'd ever heard.

    I'd love to hear from anyone who has any experience with any of these speakers or other suggestions of alnicos for an AC-30 circuit and trying to get a more vintage sound.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  2. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    30
    Posts:
    5,919
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York
    I'd say weber Blue dog would be a good choice

    I was going to recommend their Fane Axis speaker, mixed with the BlueD, but it seems that maybe it's either discontinued, or they haven't added it to their new website yet. Anywho, the Thames 12 Alnico could be a good choice too. It's in weber's 'High Powered' series, supposed to be a replacement for the 'Gray frame' Fane speakers.
    The Fanes are usually considered pretty 'chimey' and full.
    Also, from what I read, there were quite a few AC15's and AC30 loaded with Fanes, so that ought to work out pretty well.
     
  3. mabley123

    mabley123 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,040
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    ashland kentucky
    Check out the New Fane Ascension Series.
     
  4. MadJack

    MadJack Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Location:
    ꓶꓞ ʻɹǝๅpuɐꓛ
    I've found my Weber AlNiCo Blue Dog (30 watt, 16 Ω) to be warmer and creamier sounding than the current MIC Celestion speakers. The popular combination is the Blue Dog with a Silver Bell for greatest depth. About as close as I come is running my 1 x 10" cab loaded with an AlNiCo Blue Pup and the AlNiCo Blue Dog in my AC15C1, the two together have all the chime and a modest amount of warmth, that just isn't there with just one or the other speaker.
     
  5. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    To clarify, my Celestion Blues are UK made.
     
  6. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    22,913
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    Austin speaker works have nice ones out imho
     
  7. RaistMagus

    RaistMagus Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    712
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Location:
    Denmark
    Allthough I love Alnico speakers (over ceramic ones) in fenders, I somehow find Vox amps sound voxier with ceramic speakers. Go figure... I really like the cheap wharfdales found in cheap chinese Vox AC30 amps.
     
  8. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I think I'm leaning toward the Scumnico SC75 and S75-PVC pairing or just two SC75's.

    Now I need to work out what wattage. The S75-PVC will probably have to be 65 watts as the 25 watts can catch fire if pushed too hard and I like to get my Hayseed pretty loud.

    If I get a 65 watt S75-PVC, should I pair it with a 30 watt or 65 watt SC75?
     
  9. Wayne Alexander

    Wayne Alexander Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,904
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Call or email Jim Seavall if you're going with Scumbacks. He will guide you with vastly more experience than anyone here, he makes them. I love his speakers.

    As to your Celestions, are you sure you broke them in? "brighter/more aggressive than vintage" is what non-broken in ones sound like. In a band context, I wouldn't consider a Gold or Blue even moderately broken in until it's had 100 hours or more at gig volume on it.
     
  10. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Wayne,

    I bought the Celestion Blues from Avatar and I had them break them in and I've got plenty of hours at pretty high volumes on my own as well so they are plenty broken in.

    I emailed Jim today (Sunday) and he's already gotten back to me. He's recommending the S75-PVC 65 watters.

    I asked about the SC75-PVC and SC75 combination and he said it sounds great, but then there is the dilemma of which speaker to mic in live situation where only one mic is available - which is usually pretty easily to figure out given a venues size and sound.

    I'm concerned about the SC75-PVC not having enough lows. The Hayseed puts out some nice low end and I don't want to lose any.
     
  11. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Okay. So now the new Celestion Alnico Creams are contenders.
    Very intrigued by these as they seem to have the things I love about the Blue - chime, and upper midrange swirl, but with more bass and a softening of the harsh high end.

    They are still 100db efficiency which means they are still going to be loud, though, they'll hold together more so you'll hear more amp breakup before the speakers start to squash like the Blues do.


    And there is the price to consider - $299. Not cheap.

    So I'm considering two Alnico Creambacks.

    A Creamback and a higher wattage Weber Blue Alnico with a neo booster to match the efficiency.

    I'm still curious about the Weber Alnico Silver and Blue combo.

    Decisions...
     
  12. Chris S.

    Chris S. Asst. Admin

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    6,995
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Location:
    Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC)
    Sorry, I'm no help. :( I had two Celestion Alnico blues in a closed-back cab with my Hayseed 30 head, and I don't know how it could've sounded better. :confused: The combination of that amp with those speakers was everything I wanted and more. CS
     
  13. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,977
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Location:
    PNW
    Try Avatar for the best deal on a Celestion Cream Alnico. What is a Creamback alnico and who makes them?

    Celestion makes a Creamback, but the magnet is ceramic:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  14. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    30
    Posts:
    5,919
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York
    Also, just to point out. Alnico speakers should be pushed a bit to get the most out of them. I recommend not going too high on the wattage rating, or you may not be able to take advantage of the alnico's compression, and you're paying a buttload for the alnico mag, due to cobalt prices. One or two 90-100 watt alnico may not be the best choice for a 30 watt amp. You wont be able to push those speakers enough to take advantage of the alnico mags. Weber speakers even say there's no point in paying for the Alnico if they're not going to be pushed and tell people to go with the cheaper priced ceramics if that is the case.

    Also, FWIW, I think we're getting confused due to celestion's marketing names.
    Creamback = Ceramic
    Celestion Cream = 90 watt alnico speaker.

    There's no 'creamback' alnico.

    If you're set on buying alnicos, I'd recommend to keep the total power handling under roughly 70 watts (for a 30 watt amp) or you're simply wasting money paying for an alnico magnet. And even that is a little high, especially if the amp isn't getting dimed often.

    Just my $.02
     
  15. Chris S.

    Chris S. Asst. Admin

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    6,995
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Location:
    Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC)
    AFAIK my Blues were 15w each. Maybe that's why they sounded so good with the Hayseed 30. :cool: CS
     
  16. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    JD0x0, thanks for the info.

    When the Celestions get pushed, I feel like I want them to hold together a little more and have a little more depth. As broken in as they are, their aggressive high end is still just too much for me. I want something smoother up there.

    Jim at Scumback recommended that I go with the 65 watt S75-PVC, claiming that the warmer Mike Campbell tones were there and that the 25 watt could fry given that I often like my amps volume at noon. Though, it's attenuated and in 1/2 when playing at home. But when and where I can I'll open it up - full power with no attenuation if I can get away with it.

    The day before yesterday I was set on trying the Weber 30 watt Blue and Silver alnico combo as I've been curious about it for so long and recently came across some really nice sounding clips on YouTube. The price is nice and I really like Weber as a company.

    Then yesterday I started to lean more towards the Scimnico SC-75 and S75-PVC combo or a Weber 30 Watt blue with a SC-75 which is supposedly a popular combo for folks with JMJ 30 amps.

    I think I'll probably try two Webers and I can always swap out the Silver for the Scumnico if still inclined and the price is good.
     
  17. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,886
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Location:
    Beirut, Lebanon
    Greenbacks?
     
  18. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    30
    Posts:
    5,919
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York
    All I use is Webers, in all my cabs, great speakers at great prices. If you email them, telling them what you want, I'm sure they'll have good suggestions for you
     
  19. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,977
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Location:
    PNW
    Shucks, that's too bad that my suggestion wasn't helpful. :(
     
  20. thegreatwent

    thegreatwent TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Jay. I almost always get my speakers from Avatar.

    I tried to edit my previous post. There is no Alnico Creamback. It's called the Alnico Cream and you can find out about on Celestion's site.

    It's a 90 watt alnico speaker that they tried to voice like a blue but with higher wattage.

    I'd say, judging by the clips I've heard, they've done a pretty good job. Much smoother and warmer but retains the chime and has great bass response.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.