Neodymium Speakers

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by drri, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    I can't understand why they wouldn't- I mean, it's already a modeling amp, modeling the speaker is part and parcel of that process.
     
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  2. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I don’t think the type of magnet is dispositive.
     
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  3. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Correct. The difference in sound due to magnets is because of the strength and field density of the magnet where it interacts with the coil. Magnets of different materials can be engineered to show the same or different field structure to the coil. That is why some Neo speakers have a plug magnet within the coil and some have donut magnets surrounding the core. It is also why second and third generation neos typically do not have the shrill brittleness in their tone that the first generation speakers did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  4. Shango66

    Shango66 Friend of Leo's

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  5. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    "Mama tone?" Tell me more.
     
  6. Stax1

    Stax1 TDPRI Member

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    I had some Celestion Century Neo's in a 2x12 cab a few years back. They were ok.. A bit shrill, as others have said. I swapped them out for Eminence Private Jacks - liked them much more, but they were a little heavier to lug around.

    I currently have a Celestion Neo (forget exactly which model) in my Vox AC30CC1. it comes stock in these early/mid 2000's 1x12 reissue AC30's - I think it sounds great in here! I've no intentions of swapping it out.
     
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  7. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    No, but I like my neos, and my back loves them. I don't think you could make a living off of the difference tonally between them and a good ceramic magnet speaker, personal preference is subjective.
     
  8. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    Mama has a nice, round tight bottom, just like the sound! Nope, I won't post pix!:lol:
     
  9. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    What does a "round sound" mean?

    Is it related to buttah'?

    I like the idea of Neodymium speakers, but I don't trust them...

    My understanding is that neodymium loses its magnetic field when it heats up to temperatures around 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

    160 F is within the realm of possibilities for a magnet pushing a speaker coil at high volume for several hours at a time.

    I'm not sure the current batch of neos will stand the test of time. Even if they sound great new, a few long gigs could potentially alter them forever.

    I have only tried a few different neodymium speakers so far, but the ones I have heard had a midrange curve that didn't sound natural to me. The sound reminded me of the high/midrange frequencies piezo bridge pickups make on acoustic electric guitars...

    If I found one that sounded really good I would be tempted, but so far I haven't heard any neos that sounded nearly as good as ceramic magnet speakers.

    So far. I'm open to suggestions. I like Vintage 30s, Eminence Governors, V12s, and the new George Alessandros.
     
  10. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Stupid question, but how does the sound quality of neos compare to ceramic? Is the primary attraction weight or something good about the sound quality?
     
  11. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    So, if a magnet's only contributing factor to the sound of a speaker is "strength and field density of the magnet where it interacts with the coil", and "magnets of different materials can be engineered to show the same or different field structure to the coil", why aren't there ceramic magnet copies of alnico speakers, since ceramic magnets are substantially less expensive to produce?

    Oh, wait- there are... it's just that they don't sound the same.
     
  12. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I think I still have a celestion Century non-vintage 12
    More like a JBL. Took forever to break up..
    A lot of the other ones at the time sounded too hi fi.

    Neos are getting better now I heard.

    .
     
  13. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's weight. As for sound it all depends on how well the engineering team balanced the size of the Neo magnet with the existing or newly designed voice coil.
    If they were only allotted a short design window, limited testing, and other constraints then the Neo could be worse than a ceramic system 'tone'.

    Are the paper cones the same material, thickness, waffle ribbing, and so on for any A/B comparisons? Were any A/B speakers broken in or comparing an old ceramic to a new neo cone?

    Really though, most amp cabinets are not optimized for tones, given the plethora of open back cabinets and random cabinet interior volumes vs throw of the speakers it's random chance that swapping speakers will improve or worsen the sound from a cabinet/amp. If you hang around any audiophile stereo forums you'll find a lot of discussion on the speaker case design itself as well as the drivers put in it. Guitar amp world it's only gone as deep as plywood/MDF/solid pine cases, which has always 'baffled' me.

     
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  14. Rev Hoodoo

    Rev Hoodoo TDPRI Member

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    I don't think you can isolate the magnet as the single greatest factor influencing how a speaker responds or sounds. There's the frame, the voice coil and the all important cone - seamed, no seam, paper, hemp, ribbing, the weight of materials. I think it is reasonable to assume that with weight reduction as a primary goal some considerable effort was put into finding a neodymium magnet speaker that sounded like a vintage Jensen. A lot of folks who have played these and maybe even own them think they have done this successfully. The magnet alone is only one part of the whole equation. I think if they simply stuck a vintage styled ceramic Jensen in there it would sound somewhat different than a vintage Twin or a reissue simply because of the solid pine versus plywood cabinet. Also, the baffle board appears to be wood, which is another difference from the '65.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  15. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    I guess I'm a little skeptical. Neodymium is stronger for its weight and size. They've been used in microphones for some time. But why not pickups? Why just now for speakers? I think a magnet is only one of many factors when designing a speaker. Might as well save weight, but I'm unsure why they are still a minority among speaker magnet choices, unless there's a downside.
     
  16. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Rare Earth magnets are not cheap.
     
  17. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Neos have a proven track record with more taxing applications, especially as bass drivers. If the magnets "degraded" in that application, we all would have heard about it a long time ago.

    I've had a Celestion neo for about three years now, that has seen regular usage. I can detect no magnet degradation.
     
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  18. Greggorios

    Greggorios Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    +1, Sorry, not trying to be difficult but I'm still confused too. I understood that the amp comes with a neodymium speaker. Also unclear why one would want to buy a brand new model amp and then immediately replace the speaker that the amp was designed to work with?

    Oh well, I suppose each to his own.
     
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  19. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    As for ceramic speakers, IME there are many ceramics that have great sound on the market. My lead player has a Weber in his DRRI, and it sounds great, with all the Fender chime and sparkle he likes. If one completely disregards weight issues, my favorite ceramic speaker tone-wise is the JBL E-120-8. Some say it's sterile or too hi-fi, but I love the tone, punch and cleanliness of sound. At twenty-three lb, one in an amp is bad, weight-wise, but two of them in, say, a Twin is just killer- tone and back!
     
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  20. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah, you can definitely make a great speaker with a ceramic magnet. I stuck a Weber ceramic Blue Dog in my Black Pearl a few days ago, and it sounds terrific.

    It doesn't sound like an alnico Blue Dog, though.
     
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