Negative Makeup Gain

[still_fiddlin]

What does that mean, and how would you use it, anyway?

In Logic Pro, when I pop in their own compressor plugin, the default MAKE UP is set to -1.0, and the range for that knob goes from -20 to +50. I might leave it alone if I'm just doing a bit of side-chaining but I never purposely set it to a negative value. (Guess I could play with it to see what it's doing, but lazier to just ask here.)


P.S. I actually did google a bit but all I got were links about folks using the output gain knob...

 

[Geoff738]

For gain staging, making sure the output plays nice with whatever is next in the chain?

Just a guess. Seems weird to me too.

Cheers,
Geoff

 

[GuitarPix]

My guess - and only a guess – is that people are recording too hot, so this helps with the rest of the chain. Not the best choice but it might be a reason.

A better choice is to use the gain utility plug-in and set that to ‘minus X’ so that your compressor isn’t getting slammed either.

 

[still_fiddlin]

@Geoff738 & @GuitarPix - I'm pretty sure the Input and Output Gain controls at the lower left & right of the UI are intended for gain staging tweaks. At least, that's how I use them sometimes, though I also might use Logic's [Utility] Gain plugin or modify a track's [region] Gain parameter.

It's the ability to dial the Make Up gain value negative that is puzzling me.

 

[woodman]

My guess would be that when you have a sound based on the input/output balance that you really like, you can back it up in the mix a tad without adjusting your track fader. ??? Truthfully, I'm as perplexed as the rest of you guys!

 

[paratus]

That's one reason why I don't use Logic. JUST KIDDING!

The hardware comps I am used to using (DBX-160, BSS DPR-402) only have a single gain control. Makeup gain is typically used because the act of compressing a signal makes it quieter, makeup gain can be applied to bring the level back up.

Like you all, I am not sure why you need makeup gain as well as output gain.

 

[woodman]

Well, another knob to twiddle, that's value added in some quarters!

 

[LutherBurger]

...Like you all, I am not sure why you need makeup gain as well as output gain.

I'm also wondering under what circumstances one might need +50dB of it.

I'll guess, though, that the Output Gain is there to follow the limiter and MIX functions.

 

[still_fiddlin]

...
Like you all, I am not sure why you need makeup gain as well as output gain.

Well, the Makeup Gain is applied "inside" the compressor, and that's what does the squeezing from the bottom (how I see it, anyway), with the Threshold and Ratio doing it from the top. And yes, it's to compensate for the overall loudness reduction caused by the latter, but there is interaction with the other compressor settings.

Output Gain is post-compressor, and as others mentioned, likely used to fix overall, now-compressed signal, e.g., in case you've managed to dial it in FX-perfectly, but it's not right for the mix, the fader won't do the trick (maybe too much automation already applied in the mix - my usual problem), and you don't want to mess with Makeup or Input settings, since that will change the overall effect, and you'll be back twiddling those knobs again.

Everything makes sense to me (well, +50 not so much), but negativity in Makeup Gain seems to remain a mystery. Probably just there because they could!

 

[studio]

It seems to me that the plug assumes a line or near line level environment?
I've had comps, actual box units that have a switch to match a mic level
input. That would be in the minus 50 range woulf it not?

So, possibly maybe that make up gain knob is just giving you
the advantage of having all that room to work with?

More questions than answers, i know i know......
but if one is using the comp as an effect unit, then maybe
The sound you are going for sounds great at a very low level
and the make up gain brings it up to a usable level.
(That doesn't even make sense as I was writing it!)

That's all I got guys.