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Need speaker advice

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by BBill64, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    I didn't get any joy when I posted this over in Amp Tech so...
    Who can help me out? Weber and WGS recommendations aren't much good to me as they're too expensive over here.

    Eminence ones are cheaper but they have weird glued cones on some of them? Not a fan. Jensens are a good price but I don't often see the modern ones recommended (although the C12Q is almost certainly modern and sounds brilliant, so...).
     
  2. Pcaluaru

    Pcaluaru Tele-Meister

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    "It's probably nicer than any amp that you've ever heard"

    Being nicer than I've ever heard.... I'm afraid I can't halp you because its so nice. (But being so nice that I've never hear a better amp... one has to ask "why do you need to change the speaker"?
     
  3. Henry Mars

    Henry Mars Tele-Afflicted

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    My guess is that the actual output power of this amp is between 15 and 18W. The specs aren't exactly clear the way they quote the power rating.
    If you want cleaner out of this amp you will need an efficient speaker .. the Cannabis Rex is the best bang the buck IMO. However as much as I like this speaker it may not be right for your sound. If you are playing at band volume it is really hard to get "clean clean" sounds out of 15 -20W ... then again it depends on what kind of band you are in. I like the YGM3 ... great amp but it you really want clean(er) you are going to need an amp that puts out 30 -40W min at band volume because a 15 or 20W amp can't give you the head room at high volumes usually, ( it is a design issue). ... it is just arithmetic really.

    After all of what I just said I want to make it clear that you can design a very clean 15 -20W guitar amp but most of the time players buy these amps because they want the break up at db levels that won't leave them deaf especially in smaller rooms. I keep amps on hand that range from between 30 to 110W for the situations where I really do need clean. Most of the time I use 15W amps sometimes two of them. They all have the C.Rex installed. Every situation is different. Just remember that you can install a really efficient speaker and it will help but you can't get blood out of a stone. There are limits.
     
  4. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    You are misjudging the better speaker - Eminence. For your own good, reconsider
     
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  5. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

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    Efficiency rating C12Q. 94.6 db So try to find a speaker with a higher Db rating

    But then what speaker for the same “sound” that’s tuff, It boils down to buy and try. I don’t think your going to get a magic answer at best you’ll get opinions


    Maybe read this to get an idea of efficiency ,db , watts

    https://spinditty.com/instruments-gear/Speaker-Watt
     
  6. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    As I said in the OP, I'm trying to get more volume out of it. I was being facetious.
    I know they come highly recommended but nobody mentions whether the cones are glued or not. I know they are on some of the 10-inch Legends and it doesn't look like the C rex has a glued cone in pics but the reality doesn't always match the internet pictures.
     
  7. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    Thank you for this response. When practising with my current band, I was running the Traynor at the very top of its clean power with the C12Q. I've switched to a 30w Orange, which has more power but doesn't sound as good.

    I know the C rex is everybody's' favourite for this application, but I want to know if there are any alternatives that do a similar job, even if they cost a little bit more. For example, I hear very little opinion on modern Jensens, yet the C12Q sounds wonderful, just not efficient enough.
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You need a speaker of 102db efficiency. That will effectively double the apparent volume compared to a speaker that has an efficiency acting of 94db. The Eminence Legend GB128 will do that as will other Emi's with similar do ratings. An EV will give you that, but you are concerned about expense. I say look at the Emi's. As for the 'glue cones' concern, IMHO there is no concern. Emi builds a quality product, ime.
    As for using an amp of higher power, in order to double the volume through a speaker of similar efficiency, one would have to increase the output power of the amp by a factor of 10. A 30 watt amp through the same speaker is not a big boost in volume.
     
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  9. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    The 30w Orange is a Rocker 30 running through two Celestion V30s (100dB sensitivity). I can run it at about the same volume as the Traynor but with less clipping (and more spread because of the 2x12).

    Wally, your endorsement for the Emi Legends says to me that they must be quality drivers. Would you recommend the GB128 over other Emi 12"s?
     
  10. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    There's a reason why Jensens aren't often recommended. It's just people's general preference for something else. Nothing wrong with your following your own preferences, of course.

    That glued cone phobia is getting in your way. :) If you can get past it, I think an Eminence Legend would do well for you. No, the cone will not explode or fly apart.
     
  11. Henry Mars

    Henry Mars Tele-Afflicted

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    No argument there but you will get a significant increase in clean headroom by using a higher power amp. The speaker will help but the difference isn't earth shattering ... I have been through this with 4 low power amps.
     
  12. 8barlouie

    8barlouie Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    Eminence all the way. They're not that expensive. As far as the glue concern goes, I think you're refering to the dope on the speaker. If louder and cleaner is what you're after, dope on the speaker can only help.
     
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Through the same speaker and using the same type of amplifier circuit, a doubling of power will yield a 25% increase in apparent volume. Using the same amp, increasing the efficiency of the speaker by 6db will double the apparent volume. The speaker efficiency change is the easiest way to increase that headroom. It would take a 150watt output through the same speaker to double the apparent volume of a 15 watt amp.
    Eminence sells a 12" speaker that has a flux density adjustment with which one can vary the efficiency.
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    BBill64, the Emi Legend Gb 128 was Emi's first British cone speaker. That said, it is not a midrange you speaker as is their Private Jack. The GB12 has a big firm low end, smooth high end even when pushed and a warm, woody tone. If you are looking for something more in the line of a classic vintage Jensen sound, which the modern does not do IMHO, you might look at the Legend Emi's that are voiced that way .
    I have liked the GB in every amp into which I have put it....great speaker, IMHO.
     
  15. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    One of the best "vintage Jensen" sounding, current production speakers, I've heard is the Eminence GA-SC64; and it's 100.5 db.
     
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  16. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    Great info, thanks a lot.

    From the descriptions on the Eminence website, it sounds like the CRex or the RW&B are voiced in the way I want. I guess if they're all good speakers - the Legends, the Patriots, all the Emis - it's just a case of picking one and seeing if I like it.

    It's a long process; buying a speaker, breaking it in, test driving it at rehearsal/gigs... if only there was a quicker way, right?

    Do you see the lines across the cones, moving along the radius of the cone?
    [​IMG]

    That's what I mean. It looks like the cone is actually a flat sheet glued into shape instead of pressed into shape. The amp tech I know - who, for what it's worth, uses Emi Legends in a 4x10 he built - isn't convinced that it's the best way, and I don't have much reason to doubt him.
     
  17. 8barlouie

    8barlouie Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    Ok, now I get it.
     
  18. t-luxe

    t-luxe Tele-Afflicted

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    It's called a seamed cone. Not uncommon and not a problem. Weber offers several Jensen clones with seamed cones, one being their C12Q equivalent. Usually makes for a bit brighter tone, I believe.

    As for the C-Rex, I hated it in every amp I tried it in. Lot's of people like it, tho.
    To me, it sounded like the proverbial Wet Blanket. And takes a long time to break in. After 40hrs play time thru several different amps I gave up and moved it along.

    The guy that bought it put it in a SS Yamaha combo and loved it......matter of taste.
     
  19. Post-HK

    Post-HK Tele-Meister

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    For what it's worth, I've seen companies like WGS tout the "seamed cone" as key to the sound of a classic American-voiced speaker. It's definitely not something to be avoided.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  20. BBill64

    BBill64 Tele-Afflicted

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    "Seamed cone"... It's amazing, once you know the accepted name for something, you can find the answers to all of your questions about it. Thanks everybody.
     
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