Need Same Amp But Bigger

[57joonya]

I've never run two amps at the same time. Not familiar with phasing issues. What do I need to know?

I have been running a 5 or 6 watt vintage Gretsch amp with a goodsell super 17. I just run a stereo delay pedal , and plug both amps into that, amd my guitar out of that. I have noticed possibly a phase issue . I just switched wires , amd it sounds better . But I can never remember which way until I hear it . It sounds amazing though. I get the grit out of the little one , and a nice full sound out of the good sell . I would also recommend looking for a used goodsell super 17 . Might be similar to the sound your getting out of the valve jr. It’s a simple amp with el84 tubes . Just volume,tone and gain. It’s been the best amp I’ve ever owned and built like a tank

 

[mistermullens]

Speaker phasing can be an issue. But if they are both the same amp and not messed with, you SHOULD be good to go. But you mention a replaced speaker so check the phasing on both speakers with a 9V battery: With the battery oriented the same to the speaker tabs (battery + to speaker + when you test each speaker), they should both go IN or OUT, not one in and one out. This is a momentary contact 9v battery test. Look it up.

Or you can just joinn the amps, play a loud low note and look to see that both speakers move in or out simultaneously.

By the way, if that Weber is a Derek Trucks model speaker, they are very anemic low efficiency speakers. But you like the tone so, I guess you will have to do other things than different speakers.

You can split your signal into the two amps with a splitter as shown in post #13. Or you can patch a guitar cable from amp #1's second input to amp #2's first input.

The next issue could be humming.
If you continue to have noise issues, Tone Bone makes a device for doing this without any humming etc.

I'm leaning toward two identical amps and cabs on stage and mic'ing one as you suggested. I love the speaker, and didn't realize it was the "Derek Trucks" speaker when it was suggested to me by Weber when shopping for a specific sound. The speaker stays.

I have no issues with hum. My guitars are loaded with P90s.

 

[schmee]

I'm leaning toward two identical amps and cabs on stage and mic'ing one as you suggested. I love the speaker, and didn't realize it was the "Derek Trucks" speaker when it was suggested to me by Weber when shopping for a specific sound. The speaker stays.

I have no issues with hum. My guitars are loaded with P90s.

The hum I mentioned is not from your current rig, it's from combining amps ....sometimes. You'll know right away.
It might not be the Derek speaker, I have not heard of the D12 and thought MAYBE it might be. I thought the Trucks speaker was a DT12.
Good luck!

 

[mistermullens]

The hum I mentioned is not from your current rig, it's from combining amps ....sometimes. You'll know right away.
It might not be the Derek speaker, I have not heard of the D12 and thought MAYBE it might be. I thought the Trucks speaker was a DT12.
Good luck!

It is the Trucks speaker. I typed it wrong. It's the DT12.

 

[yamatele]

I've run 5 watt amps through a 2x12 open back cab with Celestion Alnico Blue 12" and had no issues being heard.

 

[mistermullens]

I've run 5 watt amps through a 2x12 open back cab with Celestion Alnico Blue 12" and had no issues being heard.

I'm also considering this option.

 

[Peegoo]

I've never run two amps at the same time. Not familiar with phasing issues. What do I need to know?

I have tried running two amps off a splitter before and always got a bad hum that I assumed was caused by a ground loop. I used the EHX Switchblade mentioned in the post above. Is this just the wrong kind of product? How is the issue to be avoided?

Get a Radial Big Shot ABY.

It's a passive ABY switcher with phase flip and ground lift switches. It's perfect for your needs and many other applications that you have yet to discover. These are built like a tank too.

Realistically, the only time phase is an issue is when you have two or more speakers driven by the same single amp, or if you're running two amps to matched speakers inside the same cabinet.

When running two amps through two separate speakers, however, phasing is not a big deal because the amps will not be in sync and the speakers are acoustically separated anyway.

If you want to prove this to yourself, flip the speaker connections on one of the amps and compare that sound to when both speakers are connected + to + and - to -.

 

[BlueTele]

I don't know "your" amp, but I have had a Carmen Ghia...GREAT little amp. Two controls, so simple to dial it in and enjoy. Might I assume that your Epiphone is an EL84/6BQ5 tube amp? I ask because I assume that you know that the Carmen Ghia is an EL84/6BQ5 amp, as is the more powerful version Mazzerati with four EL84 tubes. If you like and enjoy that EL84 jangle, chime, and available gritty grind, there is the venerable Vox AC15, but I would not buy a new one. There are some great clones by smaller boutique (hate that word) builders. Just do a search on "Best AC15 clones" and several great builders will come up. Good luck!

 

[printer2]

When running two amps through two separate speakers, however, phasing is not a big deal because the amps will not be in sync and the speakers are acoustically separated anyway.

The whole point would be to have them in phase and acoustically close to each other (stacked or side by side), similar to having something like a 2x12 cabinet. The greater the surface area of the speaker(s) the more efficient the transfer of power from the speaker to the air. Speakers are a high pressure transducer (low impedance, it can push your hand if you are touching the cone) and the air is a higher impedance. It is the same as using a transformer to take the high impedance power from your tubes and step it down to operate speakers. A horn loaded driver acts the same way but rather than needing multiple drivers the horn makes the driver seem bigger. A 4x12 cabinet is the mechanical equivalent of a horn loaded speaker, more surface area moving the air.

 

[teletina]

Why not find Epi Blues Custom ?

 

[Wally]

Two amps or two channels in one amp can be in or out of phase with each other. That phase is determined by the number of gain stages in each channel/amp. If both channels/amps have an odd number of gain stages, the two will be in phase…as long as the speakers are in phase with each other. If both channels/amps have and even number of gain stages, they will be in phase….as long as the speakers are in phase with each other.

As for P-90s and hum, if you play P-90s you have to live with that single coil hum.

 

[Sputnik03]

After all of these years, I believe I've found my sound. Yes, it surprised me, especially the amp! So my main gigging amp is an Epiphone Valve Junior head through a 1x12 cab loaded with a Weber D12. For me, bandmates, and people who come to our shows, always comment on how much they enjoy the tone. I love this amp, have two of them, and I'm about to pull a trigger on a third to keep at the practice space. Is there something out there comparable in the 15-18 watt range? Should I run two of them on stage? I only ask because it would be useful to have something a bit louder for outdoor gigs and venues larger than the clubs we play now. Let's take the "just run it through the monitors" option out of the equation. I've done that, but I can get swallowed up on stage when we have guests sit in and they're playing a Deluxe Reverb.

I was thinking a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia.

Oh, my main guitar is Gibson Les Paul Junior, and my pedal board is Crybaby>Blues Pro or Super Phat Mod OD>JHS Modded TR2>Topanga Reverb>Amp. I also play a Casino and Tele for open G tunes.

I use an old AC15 on top of a Marshall quad of undetermined vintage. For when I need something a bit louder. It is PLENTY loud. I've been playing guitar for over 50 years and this set up is ample for 99% of gigs.

 

[Sputnik03]

 

[arlum]

I thought its goodness might have something to do with it being a single-ended amp.

I agree with you. Single ended amps have a different sound from other amplifiers. Some players preferthist while others prefer something else but the difference is always quite noticeable. Among my current 8 amplifiers half are single ended class A and the other half are Push-Pull. The Push-Pull are far more efficient and have far more note definition at "shredder" speed levels while the Single ended Class A have far better even order harmonics, interesting overtones, and "character". I don't know why. I'm giving you a long term users perspective. If I'm going for an over the top progressive / hard rock / metal lead I'll go to an AB Push-Pull amp. If I'm going for an emotional, blues, ultra smooth or trippy psychedelic lead single ended class A is the only way to go.

 

[VintageSG]

For a single ended amp in the ~15-20 Watt region, it's going to get expensive for a single valve solution.
Laney have the Lionheart L20T-112 ( also available as a 2x12" or a head ) which uses four EL84 in parallel to achieve 20 Watts.
In the cheap seats, and not a single ended amp, is the Monoprice/Harley Benton/Sub Zero[1] 15 Watt. It has many fans on here. Basically a Laney Cub 12r.

[1]
Different incarnations depending on territory.

 

[Special Ed]

After all of these years, I believe I've found my sound. Yes, it surprised me, especially the amp! So my main gigging amp is an Epiphone Valve Junior head through a 1x12 cab loaded with a Weber D12. For me, bandmates, and people who come to our shows, always comment on how much they enjoy the tone. I love this amp, have two of them, and I'm about to pull a trigger on a third to keep at the practice space. Is there something out there comparable in the 15-18 watt range? Should I run two of them on stage? I only ask because it would be useful to have something a bit louder for outdoor gigs and venues larger than the clubs we play now. Let's take the "just run it through the monitors" option out of the equation. I've done that, but I can get swallowed up on stage when we have guests sit in and they're playing a Deluxe Reverb.

I was thinking a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia.

Oh, my main guitar is Gibson Les Paul Junior, and my pedal board is Crybaby>Blues Pro or Super Phat Mod OD>JHS Modded TR2>Topanga Reverb>Amp. I also play a Casino and Tele for open G tunes.

Stereo 2x12 with your favorite speaker. Radial BigShot ABY between your guitar and the two amps. Each amp into one side of the cabinet. Should be plenty loud for most venues.

(Or one could mic the amp and feed through mains and monitors.)

 

[JustABluesGuy]

The Dr. Z amps really sound great.
Unfortunately because of the war in Ukrai e the "Z" has become a problematic symbol (at least here in Europe).

What do you think? Would you gig with an amp with a big Z, which could be misunderstood as a symbol of support of the Russian military action in Ukraine?

If I loved the amp I wouldn’t worry about other’s ignorance on the subject. Unless they are likely to get violent of course.

 

[Maguchi]

These amps have no way to daisy chain from one to another, so you would need a splitter to send the signal to both…or all three…amps.

Get a 1/4" Y splitter and run both amps at the same time. Best to have them right next to each other. With the speakers next to each other you get a little extra output as the speakers act together and couple to the air better.

Would there be any electronic or sound issues if using a 1/4" male to two 1/4" female adapter?

 

[ficelles]

THD Univalve, although you need an adapter to run an EL84, and you might go down a rabbit-hole of tube swapping.

 

[printer2]

Would there be any electronic or sound issues if using a 1/4" male to two 1/4" female adapter?

View attachment 1047947

Would be perfect.