Need help with Rode NT1 condenser mic

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

I have only ever used a SM58 for recording. I was recently experiencing some noise issues while recording acoustic guitar, given how much I had to push the level on the SM58 to get decent sound. So I finally broke down and got my first condenser mic, the Rode NT1 (signature series model). I have now recorded both acoustic guitar and vocals with the NT1, and I haven't loved the results so far. I assume at least some of this is user error, so I'm hoping you guys have some suggestions.

For recording the acoustic, I tried a lot of different placement options. It seemed to me that the bottom-end "boominess" that I associate with pointing a dynamic mic right at the soundhole was present at greater distances from the soundhole. And it seemed like the second I got it far enough down the neck to stop the boom, I would lose volume and detail, and it would sound far away. I couldn't seem to get the high-end sparkle of the strings like you want. Any tips on good placement for condensers (and NT1 in particular) would be appreciated.

The vocals were a different issue. It didn't sound terrible, but it also didn't sound any better (and maybe a bit worse) than my SM58. It also took more gain than I would have thought to get good levels, but there was no noise, so I guess that's fine. Again, I tried different angles and distances, but the sound was always lacking. I assume I'm doing something wrong here. Any tips for vocals for someone used to dynamic mics?

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Oh, and I have one other issue with the NT1. I kept it out of the OP because it's a bit in the weeds and specific to my equipment. My interface (Scarlett 2i2) has an option to supply phantom power for condenser mics. However, the Scarlett does not have power on its own. It is powered via its USB connection to a computer. Or, in my case, it is powered by my iPad.

When I recorded the acoustic guitar, the phantom power on the Scarlett worked, but only once I also hooked up external power to the iPad. In the past, I've always been able to power the Scarlett just through the USB connection to the iPad - the iPad itself did not need to be plugged in. But I guess the extra 48v power draw for the condenser was too much?

Anyway, this brings me to my issue. I prefer to record vocals with a particular vocal processing pedal/unit: the TC Helicon Harmony GXT. However, with that unit in the chain between the Rode NT1 and the Scarlett, the phantom power refused to work correctly, so I simply could not use the mic.

Can the 48v phantom power simply not make it through the pedal? Or is there some other problem in my chain? Phantom power and condensers are totally new to me, so there could be obvious stuff I'm missing.

 

[chulaivet1966]

Howdy Heart....

Hmmm.....condensers are extremely sensitive vs dynamics and I'd expect to see signal from the mic even if your 6' away.

1) I'm totally shooting from the hip here.
Is there some switch or setting anywhere in your recording chain that offers the recording input choice of "+4 db or-10db" that should match your equipment specs?
2) Maybe check your gain staging again?

I have been wrong in the past but I tend to think it's some setting in the recording chain along with mic placement vs a problematic NT1.

Keep us informed
Back to it.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Is there some switch or setting anywhere in your recording chain that offers the recording input choice of "+4 db or-10db" that should match your equipment specs?

Not that I'm aware of. Now, the TC Helicon unit has an input level knob, which has been helpful when recording vocals with dynamic mics. But I haven't been able to get the unit working with the NT1, on account of the phantom power issue I mentioned.

I have been wrong in the past but I tend to think it's some setting in the recording chain along with mic placement vs a problematic NT1.

Oh, I doubt you're wrong. I'm assuming the issue is with me, rather than with the mic itself. It's a demo model from Sweetwater, so I guess there's always a chance it was mishandled at some point and damaged, but that hadn't really entered my mind. I assume this is a user error situation. I just don't know how to address it.

 

[chulaivet1966]

Heart....just a quick thought.

Is your Scarlett usb interface plugged into a USB Hub handling other usb devices also, by any chance?
Some USB devices don't care to share and actually need their own dedicated input.

Just something to check out.

 

[johnb]

Does the Scarlett have an option for an external power supply? Maybe you aren't giving the NT1 enough juice.

 

[loudboy]

I doubt the TC unit will pass phantom power. A quick check of the manual, or search online will provide the answer.

For acoustic guitar, most folks first go to is about 12-18" off the 12th fret, pointed at the sound hole.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Is your Scarlett usb interface plugged into a USB Hub handling other usb devices also, by any chance?
Some USB devices don't care to share and actually need their own dedicated input.

Just something to check out.

Nope, no hub involved here. However, because the final destination is my iPad, rather than a laptop, there is one more stop. The USB out on the Scarlett goes to this thing (Apple's "camera" adapter) which then can use the Lightning port on the iPad.

On the front there, you can see a standard USB input, which is where the Scarlett plugs in. The dongle in back goes to the iPad. The other little Lightning port next to the USB port is usually optional. That's where you can plug in an external power source for the iPad, since the iPad's only charging port is otherwise taken up by the adapter. This is the extra power I don't normally need for a dynamic mic, but which I had to plug in to record the acoustic on the condenser.

Does the Scarlett have an option for an external power supply? Maybe you aren't giving the NT1 enough juice.

I don't believe so. There is one port on the back of the unit that I don't know what it does, if anything. But I don't think it has anything to do with power, and I've never heard of external power for this unit.

Thank you both for putting your heads together on this one for me!

 

[boop]

You need to switch phantom power on at the TC Helicon, and you probably won't need it from the interface when the TC is supplying power.

48V LED – Hold the Manual and Double
buttons for 2 seconds to engage phantom
power for use with condenser microphones

Honestly, I am also a hack engineer and have struggled getting good sounds with my budget-ish condenser mic (AT4040) versus my SM57. Especially on acoustic. Sometimes I just can't tell that huge of a difference, or I like the 57 more. I'm interested in trying some other condensers. I'm looking around for a Shure KSM32

I got nothing except the general wisdom of pointing the mic around the neck body joint, typically from a 45 degree angle from the direction of the headstock, playing around with the distance and angle

How To Record A Great Acoustic Guitar Sound

Recording a passable acoustic guitar sound is fairly easy, but how do you get a great sound? We tried and tested tips and techniques from the worlds most celebrated producers and engineers to show you how...

www.soundonsound.com

If you have a willing victim, get them to play the guitar while you move the mic around and monitor with headphones

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

You need to switch phantom power on at the TC Helicon, and you probably won't need it from the interface when the TC is supplying power.

Yo! If this works, I will be a happy camper. I get a lot of good use out of this unit, but it's not always user-friendly, and there's a LOT it doesn't tell you. Fingers crossed on this one!

I got nothing except the general wisdom of pointing the mic around the neck body joint, typically from a 45 degree angle from the direction of the headstock, playing around with the distance and angle

For acoustic guitar, most folks first go to is about 12-18" off the 12th fret, pointed at the sound hole.

I definitely tried the typical recommendation to go around the 12th fret or so. Although I'm not sure the extent to which it was "pointed at" the sound hole. I assume you mean pointing the main flat surface in that general direction?

So then, the very top of the mic would then be sorta pointed at the fretboard itself, right? I'm trying to visualize the confluence of your comment and the 45-degree angle mentioned by @boop

 

[loudboy]

Yo! If this works, I will be a happy camper. I get a lot of good use out of this unit, but it's not always user-friendly, and there's a LOT it doesn't tell you. Fingers crossed on this one!


I definitely tried the typical recommendation to go around the 12th fret or so. Although I'm not sure the extent to which it was "pointed at" the sound hole. I assume you mean pointing the main flat surface in that general direction?
View attachment 1243848
So then, the very top of the mic would then be sorta pointed at the fretboard itself, right? I'm trying to visualize the confluence of your comment and the 45-degree angle mentioned by @boop

Look up a video of where the front of your mic is, you may not be using it correctly. You're not singing into the end of it, like a 58, are you?

 

[StoneH]

I've been recording acoustics for almost 3 years. I tried SM-57, SM-58, and AT2035 starting out, but small diameter condensers are the only mics I use now. A matched pair of PreSonus PM-2 mics is only $130.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Look up a video of where the front of your mic is, you may not be using it correctly. You're not singing into the end of it, like a 58, are you?

Haha, no, but given my level of experience, that's a fair question. I now know where the "front" of the mic is, but I am trying to understand the proper angle to use.

 

[loudboy]

Haha, no, but given my level of experience, that's a fair question. I now know where the "front" of the mic is, but I am trying to understand the proper angle to use.

Same plane as the guitar.

 

[suthol]

The TC Helicon needs the mic changed to condenser in the setup for phantom power

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/tc-helicon-voicelive-play-and-play-acoustic-quickstart-guide/%23:~:text%3DPhantom%2520Power%253A%2520To%2520enable%2520%252B48V,Mic%2520Type%2520to%2520MP%252D75.&ved=2ahUKEwjvvpaEuLGGAxWEzjgGHV0rCrcQFnoECBUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2QqCXcfT2y13V1om5T3WXI

 

[FortyEight]

yeah, point the face of the mic at the 12th fret... or a bit towards the bottom horn. No angle is needed. like an sm 58 could be exactly perpendicular. and your rode would be parallel.

im an sm57 evangelist. same thing as acoustic drums. Good albums have been made with just 57s. or so were told. that doesnt really help u at this point.

i think with every piece of gear, there comes a learning curve as to how to best use them. i get it. its frustrating. but im thinking u can learn to use the nt-1 to find its sweet spot. but if i had to guess off the top of my head, knowing your voice a bit just from your recordings... emphasizing top end is likely not what u need. so if there is a way to use the nt-1 to enhance the bottom of your voice.....

one tip is to try the mic lower, pointed towards your chest. supposedly that enhances low end in a persons vocal. i dont normally do that cuz im like usually low mid enhanced with a lot of my lines. i think.

that being said i never sat in a room to hear your actual voice. im going by what i hear on the recordings.

also, if youre looking for that really full acoustic sound some country recordings might have, theyre usually doing a 2 mic stereo recording of the acoustic to get all the detail and full sound. imho. a 1 mic acoustic is for an acoustic in a mix. imho. obviously there are different levels of lows depending on the mix. but u get what im saying, a real detailed acoustic recording with full frequencies is usually a 2 mic stereo set up. imho

 

[boop]

check out the mic placement section of this article
from https://acousticguitar.com/home-recording-for-acoustic-guitar/

if you point the mic at the sound hole, I think it's going to boom. small differences in placement are going to make a big difference in finding the sweet spot

basically everything I know comes from articles like these... my perceived shortcomings probably come from limited equipment choices, lack of sound treated rooms, and skill. I think that covers all my bases ;P

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

You guys. Would you like to know how dumb I am? Like, however dumb you already thought I was, it's worse. I just got home and looked at the mic in its stand, which hasn't been moved since I used it...and I'm pretty sure I had it backwards. My understanding is that this is a cardioid mic not unlike the SM58, in that it's designed to reject sound from the back. So I think I was doing the equivalent of singing into the back of an SM58, and wondering why I was getting such poor quality sound (and such low levels).

Thank you all for your help, but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to get better results next time just by...y'know...singing into the right part of the damn microphone.

 

[FortyEight]

that'll do it. learning curve.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

You guys. Would you like to know how dumb I am? Like, however dumb you already thought I was, it's worse. I just got home and looked at the mic in its stand, which hasn't been moved since I used it...and I'm pretty sure I had it backwards. My understanding is that this is a cardioid mic not unlike the SM58, in that it's designed to reject sound from the back. So I think I was doing the equivalent of singing into the back of an SM58, and wondering why I was getting such poor quality sound (and such low levels).

Thank you all for your help, but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to get better results next time just by...y'know...singing into the right part of the damn microphone.

Yep. I got a chance to try the mic again today, and everything sounds great! You would not believe the difference it makes when you point a mic towards the thing you want to hear, as opposed to pointing it in the exact opposite direction. That's just a hot tip from me to all you aspiring recording engineers out there: play guitar or sing into the mic. The results may surprise you.