Need cab for 67' Bassman Drip-edge (AB165)

Wally

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By the way, I don't really like the directionality of closed back cabs but love the punchiness. Do 10s seem to do better for sound dispersion? I can live with some beamy-ness but the closed back 1x15 in my traynor really suffers from this so I just run it open back for the most part

vertically oriented 2x cabs do a better job of wide dispersion than do horizontal 2x cabs or 4x cabs. 4X cabs focus sound in a conical shape that focuses about 20-30 feet directly on a line in front of the cab. Horizontal 2xs do not do not disperse to the side the way a vertical array does. P.A. Systems use line array speakers because of this Aspect of sonic dispersion patterns.
I have an intermediate sized BF Bassman cab,,,the first of the vertically oriented cabs that was built only in the first three months of 1967. When the SF cosmetics were introduced in April, 1967; the vertical cab was enlarged by an inch or two. I have had this cab for a few years. After not having any success trying to sell it, I sold the OEM Jensen C12Ns to a fellow TDPRI member. IF…..big if, I know….you were interested in this cab, I would let it go for the shipping and a reasonable cost to prepare it for that shipping. That SF Bassman head would bolt right down on this cab. It does not have the drip edge aluminum trim.
 

rdjones

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after doing more research, definitely think I might go with a Marshall 1965A or B cab, I'm seeing lots of people who like it with the bassman head plus it's compact and very affordable
Pay attention to impedances.
The 1965s are either 8Ω or 16Ω cabs.
The Bassman has only a 4Ω output.
A 16Ω load on the 4Ω amp is not recommended if this is intended to be a permanent pair-up.
An 8Ω load, while not ideal, would be at least tolerable.
 

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vertically oriented 2x cabs do a better job of wide dispersion than do horizontal 2x cabs or 4x cabs. 4X cabs focus sound in a conical shape that focuses about 20-30 feet directly on a line in front of the cab. Horizontal 2xs do not do not disperse to the side the way a vertical array does. P.A. Systems use line array speakers because of this Aspect of sonic dispersion patterns.
I have an intermediate sized BF Bassman cab,,,the first of the vertically oriented cabs that was built only in the first three months of 1967. When the SF cosmetics were introduced in April, 1967; the vertical cab was enlarged by an inch or two. I have had this cab for a few years. After not having any success trying to sell it, I sold the OEM Jensen C12Ns to a fellow TDPRI member. IF…..big if, I know….you were interested in this cab, I would let it go for the shipping and a reasonable cost to prepare it for that shipping. That SF Bassman head would bolt right down on this cab. It does not have the drip edge aluminum trim.
I remember that cab….. huge 2-12, my buddy had one. My 66 horizontal 2-12 bandmaster look puny next to it, but my 2-12 sounded better
 

Paul-McShartney

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vertically oriented 2x cabs do a better job of wide dispersion than do horizontal 2x cabs or 4x cabs. 4X cabs focus sound in a conical shape that focuses about 20-30 feet directly on a line in front of the cab. Horizontal 2xs do not do not disperse to the side the way a vertical array does. P.A. Systems use line array speakers because of this Aspect of sonic dispersion patterns.
I have an intermediate sized BF Bassman cab,,,the first of the vertically oriented cabs that was built only in the first three months of 1967. When the SF cosmetics were introduced in April, 1967; the vertical cab was enlarged by an inch or two. I have had this cab for a few years. After not having any success trying to sell it, I sold the OEM Jensen C12Ns to a fellow TDPRI member. IF…..big if, I know….you were interested in this cab, I would let it go for the shipping and a reasonable cost to prepare it for that shipping. That SF Bassman head would bolt right down on this cab. It does not have the drip edge aluminum trim.
oh, I wouldn't have guessed vertical 2x12s would be the best at that. Is there a difference between the 4x12 or 4x10 setup or are they both same since they share that conical shape ?

Also thanks so much for that offer but I think they may be too big for what im looking for. I'm going to be moving this between two studios quite often and drive a smaller car so I'm quite limited in my options.
 

Paul-McShartney

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Pay attention to impedances.
The 1965s are either 8Ω or 16Ω cabs.
The Bassman has only a 4Ω output.
A 16Ω load on the 4Ω amp is not recommended if this is intended to be a permanent pair-up.
An 8Ω load, while not ideal, would be at least tolerable.

Would 8ohm be tolerable long-term too or did you mean in the average short term? I was thinking maybe I could find a way to re-wire that cab to 4ohm somehow but I havent looked into that yet
 

W.L.Weller

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Four 16Ω speakers in parallel would be a 4Ω load.

The only other way to get a balanced 4Ω load with 4 speakers would be with four 4Ω speakers, which limits your selection significantly.
 

68silverw/black

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I have a '67 drip edge bassman (AB165) paired with a closed back 4ohm Avatar 2x12 loaded with two Heritage G12H30 speakers. Very clean and punchy and takes pedals well. I have compared it to other cabs I have including one with two 10 inch celestion alnico gold speakers. The 12 inch speakers and closed cab give it real punch with bass frequencies that stand out compared to the 2x10, which has great highs but can get a little like an ice pick.
 

W.L.Weller

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In series or series/parallel

If you have 4 speakers of the same impedance, you can have a mono speaker cabinet of the same impedance as the speakers by connecting each pair in series and then connecting those pairs together in parallel.

You can also swap the words "series" and "parallel" for one another in my last sentence and it will still be correct.

4 speakers of the same impedance wired in parallel will result in a total impedance of one-quarter the amount of each speaker (my example in post #26, or the Fender Super Reverb using four 8Ω speakers to match a 2Ω output transformer)
 
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Wally

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oh, I wouldn't have guessed vertical 2x12s would be the best at that. Is there a difference between the 4x12 or 4x10 setup or are they both same since they share that conical shape ?

Also thanks so much for that offer but I think they may be too big for what im looking for. I'm going to be moving this between two studios quite often and drive a smaller car so I'm quite limited in my options.

I understand the size thing.
Line array…vertical orientation. I have a little 1983 Fender “2x10 Open Back Deluxe” speaker cab with two EVI speakers. It is one of the optional speaker cabs for the TRII and Concert II heads from the Rivera Era. If it is placed in its designed horizontal orientation, one can walk across the soundstage….parallel to the face of the cab. It acts like a 4x square speaker cab but not quite as dramatic an effect As a 4x. To either side, the sonics are weak. As one walks across, the sonics increase. Straightaway, one hears the cab. Then, when that speaker cab is stood one an end, that effect disappears….the sound disperses to the sides much better. As I noted, P.A. Systems use line arrays for this reason….wide dispersion.
With a closed back 4X12, one cannot truly hear the cab until 9ne gets on a line directly in front of the speaker and somewhere 20-30 feet away…..that is where those cabs work. I have walked across small clubs when a player was using a 4x12 and have witnessed the results. If the cab is unmiked and the guitar work dispersed through the P.A., some few people are bleeding from the ears and others can’t hear the guitar.
Now…if all of the product is being mic’d as in a studio, then all of these concerns go out the door. A little 5 watt Champ can sound huge in a recording….and some people prefer that approach.
 

Paul-McShartney

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If you have 4 speakers of the same impedance, you can have a mono speaker cabinet of the same impedance as the speakers by connecting each pair in series and then connecting those pairs together in parallel.

You can also swap the words "series" and "parallel" for one another in my last sentence and it will still be correct.

4 speakers of the same impedance wired in parallel will result in a total impedance of one-quarter the amount of each speaker (my example in post #26, or the Fender Super Reverb using four 8Ω speakers to match a 2Ω output transformer)
Ahh thanks so much for clarifying that, I probably should have researched more before asking but that definitely helps me understand how to calculate it
 

Paul-McShartney

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I understand the size thing.
Line array…vertical orientation. I have a little 1983 Fender “2x10 Open Back Deluxe” speaker cab with two EVI speakers. It is one of the optional speaker cabs for the TRII and Concert II heads from the Rivera Era. If it is placed in its designed horizontal orientation, one can walk across the soundstage….parallel to the face of the cab. It acts like a 4x square speaker cab but not quite as dramatic an effect As a 4x. To either side, the sonics are weak. As one walks across, the sonics increase. Straightaway, one hears the cab. Then, when that speaker cab is stood one an end, that effect disappears….the sound disperses to the sides much better. As I noted, P.A. Systems use line arrays for this reason….wide dispersion.
With a closed back 4X12, one cannot truly hear the cab until 9ne gets on a line directly in front of the speaker and somewhere 20-30 feet away…..that is where those cabs work. I have walked across small clubs when a player was using a 4x12 and have witnessed the results. If the cab is unmiked and the guitar work dispersed through the P.A., some few people are bleeding from the ears and others can’t hear the guitar.
Now…if all of the product is being mic’d as in a studio, then all of these concerns go out the door. A little 5 watt Champ can sound huge in a recording….and some people prefer that approach.

I definitely might go with a vertical 2x12 setup then for live, feel that beamy-ness will work against me for stage volume. Just gotta find one that will fit my head well but isn't too big to not fit in my car

For recording though I guess a good 4x12 or 4x10 is the move, love that punch and don't have to worry about the former.
 

Wally

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Paul, I once had Mojo build a special request cab. I ordered a BF Tremolux 2x10 cab With a pack panel that had the middle third of one side removed…1/2 closed, 1/2 openback. After I wired the speakers, I sealed that one little passageway. I used a rotary switch to offer either side alone or both speakers together. That cab was instructive. The closed back was tight and focussed…punchy as you pit it. The openback side was bigger and looser with more bass. The surprise was what it did as a 2x10. The cab created a huge and definite 3-D sound image With a harmonic content that neither side alone produced. I came to understand later that that content was due to the slight phasing situation that was created by the different cone movements caused by the difference in the closed vs. open sides. It was magical and very versatile. In a recording situation one could have the choice of the different responses…and it was a small package.
 

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I have a BF Bassman 2x12 horizontal cab and I didn't care for the closed back sound, so I cut the back panel into 1/3 open back(open in the middle). That was kinda boomy, so I added a piece that narrowed the opening to about half that, and it's just right now... outlaw cab tuning. The drummer likes it because he can hear it back there. Light weight, no boom, sweet tone and plenty loud for outdoor shows.
 

W.L.Weller

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I definitely might go with a vertical 2x12 setup then for live
Two 8Ω speakers in parallel make a 4Ω total load. This is how I have my closed-back 2x12 configured, an Emi Red White & Blues and a Cannabis Rex.

I wonder how a half-open back would sound, but I'd have to make a center divider baffle as well as a new back. Not high on my list of projects.
 

Paul-McShartney

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Paul, I once had Mojo build a special request cab. I ordered a BF Tremolux 2x10 cab With a pack panel that had the middle third of one side removed…1/2 closed, 1/2 openback. After I wired the speakers, I sealed that one little passageway. I used a rotary switch to offer either side alone or both speakers together. That cab was instructive. The closed back was tight and focussed…punchy as you pit it. The openback side was bigger and looser with more bass. The surprise was what it did as a 2x10. The cab created a huge and definite 3-D sound image With a harmonic content that neither side alone produced. I came to understand later that that content was due to the slight phasing situation that was created by the different cone movements caused by the difference in the closed vs. open sides. It was magical and very versatile. In a recording situation one could have the choice of the different responses…and it was a small package.
Man that's really something I need to try, might make a similar back panel situation with whatever cab I get just to experience that. Or look for something that was built for that purpose (if there are any besides special requests)
 

Wally

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A couple of weeks ago I sold a 10” speaker to a fellow for his #& Prin Rev amp. I had a little 1x10} open back cab there with a very good speaker in it. The ca/ happened to fit perfectly with the Prin Rev with regard to size. We listened to different arrangements, but it was amazing what the rig did when the amp and cab were stacked vertically. The sonics were bigger, richer, and more middle dispersed than if they were side by side. Yes, the cab could be set 10-15 feet away to achieve another interesting sound stage, but the vertical array was best to my ear. The least 8moressive result was with the amp and cab closely side by side as with a 2 x 10 horizontal cab. Fwiw, I removed a JBL D110F from the Prin Rev. I have yet to hear a good sounding D110F. He agreed….and that was why he wanted to change speakers.
 

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man youre really selling me on the vertical setup Wally, when a good one comes up I think I'll go with that. Also think I'll get me a Marshall 1965 to have a good punchy quad setup for recording (after researching extensively, old fender transformers seem to do just fine going up a step in impedance)
 

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after doing more research, definitely think I might go with a Marshall 1965A or B cab, I'm seeing lots of people who like it with the bassman head plus it's compact and very affordable
Hi Paul,


Congrats on the amp, those Bassmans are just wonderful!

As for the 1965 cab, someone already mentioned the impedance. Another thing you may want to keep in mind is, that the original G10-35's in these cabs are on the mellow side of the sound spectrum and also not very sensitive, so, on the quieter side of things.
That is actually why I like mine, because, they are nice and round with no emphasis on the highs and not that loud. But If needed to work in a louder band setting, or even when you ever want to play it with a bass, I'd definitely change the speakers to something with more sensitivity.

You may also want to check the cousin of this cab, the 1966, which is like a 2061CX, a diagonal 2x12. They are rarer than the 1965's, from what I've seen, and there was even a Jubilee version available.

Best regards

Jonas
 

Paul-McShartney

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Thanks Jonas! Yeah it's a great amp, been wanting one for years now so glad to finally have one in my setup.

Yeah I actually don't mind that they're inefficient, most scenarios these days don't require me to turn up as loud. How do you think they do for cleans though? I value my fuzz tones as much as my cleans so definitely can't compromise there (but I do love my cleans to be full of mids and not so sparkly so don't mind your description of mellow). Also can't have the speakers break up too early, but a bit of breakup at moderately loud volumes is good.

Yeah I was looking at the 1966, I thought they would be much better for sound dispersion as they are separated a bit on both axis (with some overlap). However, a lot of owners on the Marshall forums like the 1965 much more for some reason, I guess it's just a special thing between that cab and those inefficient speakers.
 




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