Need Advice On 4x8 Speaker Setup In Combo Amp

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by colchar, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. colchar

    colchar Friend of Leo's

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    I've got it in my mind to buy a vintage Traynor combo (if a YBA-1 head was available at a good price I'd get that too). Right now I am considering the YGM-3 and YGM-4 (and am kicking myself for selling my '67 YGM-2 a couple of years ago!).

    I am familiar with the YGM-3s but have never seen a YGM-4. This is the same as the YGM-3, but with four 8" speakers. I've never seen or tried a 4x8 amp so was wondering if those who have could comment. Are they worth getting? Are there any drawbacks to the 4x8 format? Any benefits to it?

    With everything else being equal, would it be better to go for the 1x12 format or is the 4x8 perfectly good with the decision basically coming down to price and condition?
     
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  2. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    I know absolutely nothing about the Traynor you reference, but.. with regard to the speaker configuration I can only offer a couple very basic and general things:

    It is difficult to find any 8" guitar speaker that will have an efficiency comparable to a 12" guitar speaker. So, in absolute volume terms, comparing 1 8" to 1 12", the 12" is often superior in sheer output terms (which may or may NOT be the desired goal admittedly). Having said that, having 4 8" speakers yields lots of driver surface area -- eg; the ability to 'push a lot of air' as some say. So, even though the 8" drivers can't achieve the absolute level of volume that a good 12" can, it will sound 'big' -- but in a different way. It's really hard to characterize or general based on speaker size(s), or even configurations in isolation of the particular details which pertain to specific speakers. So, bottom line is, you probably need to know more technical / lower level details in order to accurately predict or judge if option (A) might be better than option (B).

    Just an FYI, the better 8" guitar speakers are rated up to about 96db -- most are less. Many 12" guitar speakers are rated from about 95db all the way up 102db. 12s are often designed to be LOUD. 8s just don't put out a comparable volume normally. Personally, I tend to think the two speaker option is kind of a nice balance between pushing air and dispersion of the sound -- and can work well for 8s, 10s and 12s -- depending. In order words, if raw volume is critical, you're probably better off with a good quality 1x12". A 4 speaker configuration might be as 'fun' to play however.

    Also wanted to throw out: the 4 speaker arrangement seems to work pretty well in: Fender Bassman and the Super Reverb. More is better, right??? :):D

    The end decision should probably most grounded in: how/where/when do you plan on using such a cabinet/amp. Also, note I've avoided the issue of sounding 'good' or 'bad' with any particular option -- it's SO subjective, I just don't 'go there' when talking about this stuff. If the speakers are good, it should sound pretty good. If they are average or just plain 'bad', maybe not so much.

    That's just my 0.02 based on what I know at this point in time.

    HTH /Good luck.

    Edit:
    Found one listed on Reverb
    https://reverb.com/p/traynor-ygm-4-studio-mate-25-watt-4x8-guitar-combo

    The review mentions the speakers situation directly.
     
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  3. Mike_LA

    Mike_LA Tele-Afflicted

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    Hey buddy, I have no experience with your options but I would like to comment that in my "Studio" I have (2) 1x12 (1) 2x12 (1) 2x10, AND (1) 2x8.
    For me, two speakers always wins out over 1 speaker.
    The 2X8 is awesome for low volume playing, less magnet, less need for power, more bass.

    My 2 cents, good to hear your still playing from the Malikon days
     
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  4. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Friend of Leo's

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    I don’t like speaker sizes smaller than 12”, for most part.
    I had a YGM3 for a while and the 12 in that thing rocked.
     
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  5. colchar

    colchar Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah that is the later version of the one I was looking at.

    It turns out that I decided to go for a reissue, which has a 12" speaker.

    I was all set to go vintage, either 1x12 or 4x8, but changed my mind this evening. I can get a vintage model for $450-$600 (maybe as low as $400). Although Traynors are bomb proof older amps do require more service, components fail, values drift, etc.

    I can get a YGM-3 reissue for $650. When Traynor made those reissues they went back to their original suppliers and had them make components based on the original specs (transformers, grill cloth, everything). The reissues are PTP hand-wired amps and are exactly like the originals, with the exception of the speaker and the fact that the bright cap is gone. Being modern it will likely be a while before service is needed, before components start to drift, etc.

    Our main gear chain up here is the same company as Traynor (Traynor was started in the back room of their original location) and they regularly sell used reissues for $450-$950 (plus taxes) with $450-$600 being the usual range. The $650 I would pay works out to be the same as $575+taxes (13% combined federal and provincial sales taxes). Even if that is at the top end of what the chain usually charges, it is a PTP hand-wired amp for less than $700. Can't complain about that eh?

    Here is a video review:

     
  6. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Holic

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    I second the concern that if you need more volume, less but bigger speaker(s) is better choice!

    However after I heard how good, very low volume sound, C6V reissue 91,5db speaker produce I bought three more and I am going to build a very low sensitivity 4x6 cabinet which take dimed 12W-18W amps, which distorts hard and "cut the mix" and hope it will stay noticeable quieter than 1x12 and 1x10. Although it makes building bit complicated I try to direct two bottom speakers outwards and two on top outward and upward as well
     
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  7. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

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    A possible disadvantage to keep in mind: fewer replacement options for 8" speakers, should you want to change it down the road.
     
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  8. scottser

    scottser Friend of Leo's

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    for what it's worth, i had one of those hartke piggyback half stacks. it sounded ok with the gt60 head but the 4 x 8 cab was pretty horrible. it looked cool tho.
     
  9. stormsedge

    stormsedge Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have a 2x8 (DV Mark) that sounds pretty good to me. I often use it with a 1x12.
     
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  10. saltyseadog

    saltyseadog Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    In my heavily modded 1998 Made in USA green board BJr' I added 2 x 8" Eminence Patriot 820H speakers hooked up to the original Eminence 12" running through a 4ohm output transformer. With the bigger tweed cab it sounds just brilliant, the deeper 50's type tone of the 8"'s coupled with the brighter 12" really is an excellent mix.
     
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  11. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It may depend on the speakers involved in the 4 x 8. I could see a 4 x 8 with Weber 8f150's being cool! But expensive and heavy.
    There is magic in a 4 x 10, i would think there could be some in a 4 x 8 also.
     
  12. Leonardocoate

    Leonardocoate Tele-Meister

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    It's pretty subjective issue for sure......I have a Roland 405 Tube Logic that has 4-5" speakers and an extension cabinet with 4 5" and it sounds amazing. IMHO multiple speakers sound better than single speakers. That is just my opinion...have fun with what ever you do.
     
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  13. colchar

    colchar Friend of Leo's

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    I ended up buying the YGM-3 reissue I mentioned, for $650.

    I realize that I might have overpaid a bit, but I am OK with that. What I paid is on the high side of the average price plus taxes charged by our national retailer (same company as Traynor), but the amp is dead mint (it even still had the cardboard insert thingy on top of the amp). It was dusty and needed a good cleaning, but after that was done I fired it up and couldn't be happier with it. The amp is exactly what I wanted - a well built amp that sounds good and is simple to operate (I am really coming to appreciate simplicity so like the minimal controls on this amp). Being a reissue there shouldn't be any issues that require service for quite a while, and in the meantime I've got an amp that cost less than a Deluxe Reverb reissue but is better built. In the end, I got a hand wired tube amp for $650. I consider that a fair price.

    The only problem is that this amp being a clean machine is going to send me down an overdrive/distortion pedal rabbit hole from which I might never escape!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  14. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Since you said you already made your purchase, my reply will be more for others with your question. I have gigged for several years with a Vox Pathfinder 15R in a cabinet with one 12" speaker. A while back, on a lark, I thought I'd build another cab (for a second PF15R chassis) with four 8" speakers. They are a mix of Vox and Jensen 8's that had all been tried in stock PF15R's that I had laying around. It's a "nothing fancy" pine cabinet, fractionally smaller than a Super Reverb, and open back. Even with just the 15watts of the Pathfinder, it sounds massive. Since it's heavier and more cumbersome than my one 12" version, I've only gigged once with it, but it sounded awesome. I would never hesitate to recommend a four 8" set-up.
     
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  15. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have lots of 8" speakers out of hospital paging systems. Well worn in because you can barely understand what they are saying when they use it. When you double speaker area you get a 3dB bump, four speakers gets you 6dB. I doubt they are more than 90dB, so 96dB per watt. which is just shy of middle of the pack for guitar speakers. One day I will make a cabinet. Just like I will finally mount those 10's in the 4x10 cabinet I made up.
     
  16. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Holic

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    I think doubling speakers AND the amplifier power there comes 3db volume increase. Doubling only speakers effect volume significantly only when one get so much power that it begin to compress volume.
     
  17. unfamous

    unfamous Tele-Meister

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    No, that's not how the physics work.
     
  18. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes it does, you do not understand the physics.
     
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  19. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Holic

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    In practice if you want to increase volume 3db and change only one component you MUST use 3db higher sensitivity loudspeaker. Or use double the power amplifier.

    Increasing ONLY loudspeaker count, which have same sensitivity, does not change sound pressure because the power speakers get, comes divided.
     
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  20. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Easiest way to explain it is like a horn loaded loudspeaker. The speaker is a high pressure device but it radiates into a low pressure environment. Air has an acoustical impedance and the speaker is not well matched to it, especially in the low end. So to get the acoustic impedance to match more between the speaker and the air we use a horn. But horns are bulky. Is there a little less bulky way to go about it? Not so much, but multiple drivers is one way. Doubling the cone area creates a better match between the power into the cone and the air.

    I was unsure about it myself but I ran a test to find out. It is in the way-back machine on this site. Actually I did it a second time as one poster said I did it wrong using sine waves and I might have hit a node with the microphone. I said I swept the frequency and I did not see any change in output. Then he said I should have used a multi-frequency source, I ran the experiment with white noise using an FM receiver (some of the younger folks are saying, "What is that?") tuned between stations with the muting turned off. And guess what? Same 3 dB gain when running two speakers compared to the same power running into one.

    Over the years I have had to explain it a number of times so I bookmarked the page as Google sometimes had a hard time finding it in my 7,500 posts.

    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/running-two-15-watt-amps.355755/page-2

    Didn't have the second one bookmarked. With Photobucket holding the pictures I probably should download them some time to make sure they do not fade away.

    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/1-vs-2-vs-4-speakers.463888/page-3#post-5603791
     
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