Neck Bucker/ Bridge SC/ 2Vol+Tone Wiring Please?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by RooHeck, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. RooHeck

    RooHeck TDPRI Member

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    I've dug myself into a big old hole and filled it with tiny wires, and soldered them together, all for naught. I've a MIJ Squire Tele that had been previously modified with a Lace Sensor Blue in the bridge position, and during a frenzy of shield paint (even into the the tunnels between control cavities) and shielded wire, I installed a humbucker up on the neck because a professional installation Telecaster_HH_4-way_mod_with_two_volumes_1_tone_and_split.jpg 4 way tele wiring diagram humbucker neck.jpg had wired a standard pickup out of phase and I wanted to try something different anyway. So, in the process, with my tendency to way over research every tech project I lay my hands on, I decided that I would also have to install another volume pot to dedicate a 250K pot to the single and one 500K for the humbucker, of course that was necessary, I read it on the internet. Anyway, I tried soldering it up with a fairly standard four way switch, only going through the pots from the P/Us to the switch, and that worked, but didn't give me the four tones I was shooting for , more like two tones doubled, but I should have never touched it at that point knowing what I know now... Yesterday, I had found a diagram with HH to two Vol, perfect right? Doesn't work, tried it twice. Now, having played with the jumpers and trying to figure out how to make the three out of four positions make noise, I need help, y'all are my only hope.
     
  2. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Neck Bucker/ Bridge SC/ 2Vol+Tone Wiring

    Fair enough. But what do you want for switching? What type of switch, and what happens in each position. Other switches besides the main selector?
     
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  3. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    You can't use a four way switch to give you series wiring unless you can isolate one of the volume controls from ground. It would much easier to use a three way switch and a second switch for the series parallel wiring such as a push pull pot.
     
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  4. RooHeck

    RooHeck TDPRI Member

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    Alright, I can do easier, I was hoping for a series option, and a toggle switch works for me, on the other hand I have a push/pull tone pot installed which I believe is a DPDT. I was using it to split the humbucker, but whatever y'all think is best. I'll get a three position switch, whatever configuration toggle necessary, I was hoping to keep the 250K for the single and the 500K for the HB, bu that control panel is pretty darn crowded as is. Basically, I'm incredibly open to ideas, and being appreciative of your time, willing to be at your whim or fancy. I understand that the signal will need to work it's way from each pickup's potentiameter to one side of the switch where it will either stand alone or connect parallel to the other, essentially making that side a input, what I'm having a hard time with, is that I would think the other half of the switch would essentially output the signal from the common position to the tone pot for treble bleed through the cap and out the receptacle with all grounds tied together as neatly as possible with such limited space. But, looking at all the wiring diagrams available, I can't help but feel I'm missing the small details. For example, why did the double HB schematic route the signal from the pickup to the wiper, seemed backwards, and why was what I consider the input on the neck position pot's in between the switch and tone pot on it's way out. I'm obviously overthinking and out of my depths, so I'm ready to just follow some directions and get my guitar making noise again. Thanks again for reading and responding.
     
  5. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Holic

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    I'd drop the two volumes for now, till you get a better grip on how all this works. Use a single 500K volume, if the bridge is too bright put a resistor in parallel with it - note that your second diagram shows a "220k or 270k" doing just that. I've got a switchable 100k & 470k in mine, to make the bridge p'up play better with the mini-humbucker in the neck. Then just follow the second diagram as-is.
     
  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Here's one that might interest you. S-H, V-T, 4-way/series, and the ability to mess with the humbucker coils: series (normal full, thick sound), split, and parallel. Also, there's a 500k volume pot which goes well with the humbucker, and then a 1.2meg resistor in parallel with the output, when the bridge pickup is active. This brings the overall resistance down to approximately 350k.

    About parallel mode: Switching the humbucker to parallel mode is incredibly useful when paired with a single coil. Volume and tone are more balanced when both pickups are active. This requires a on-on-on mini-toggle. Your DPDT push-pull won't work. I like to mount the toggle between the pots, on the control plate.

    About the resistor: Normally, I'd make the resistor active only when bridge is selected alone (position 1), and *maybe* both pickups in parallel, and not when both pickups are in series. Can't do that here, though, unless someone sees a way. Any way I see it, requires an extra pole. So.... I split the difference. The resistor is active whenever the bridge pickup is, regardless of the function. My thinking is that 350k is less likely to sound too dark when the humbucker is also active. You can experiment with the value. 1meg gives approx 330k, 1.2meg approx 350k, etc. Or you could just use a 470k, and drop it down to around 250k.

    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm



    Screen Shot 2019-10-09 at 06.35.53 PM.png
     
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  7. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    It might help if you told us what you want and what you have currently to work with.
     
  8. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Holic

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    I have a Bill Lawrence 290 bridge paired with a minihum, not sure if it's from a 60's Epiphone or an old LP Deluxe. To keep the bridge from being too icepicky when I turn up the amp's presence for the minihum I have both a 470k and a 120k switchable by the tone p-p (pots are 500k) across it. That 120k might sound pretty radical but in this guitar it works out fine (I'd rather have a 150k - 170k but that's a trip across town). I tried capacitors to cut the treble but they're too "peaky"; resistors are smoother, the pickup's detail still comes through. The resistor is always in circuit with the bridge pup but since I can switch between them I haven't lost anything but the rude treble blast when switching to B from N.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  9. RooHeck

    RooHeck TDPRI Member

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    Thanks everybody for the info. I have more studying to do. For now these ideas are very helpful.
     
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Yeah, if one had another switch in the mix, and were willing to deal with it in real-time, it's trivial to conditionally include the resistor only when bridge sounds too bright. But generally that's going to mean switching pickup selector, and then switching the resistor. I know I wouldn't care for that, except experimentally.


    The numbers aren't always predictable. I've been vocal on here about how crazy stupid bright the solid rosewood neck is, that I bought a while back. Makes any Tele (body, etc) into something nearly unusable, for me anyway. I built a S-H body for it, with the on-on-on mini-toggle to do split/parallel/series on the HB. Then I conditionally added the resistor in bridge mode. But instead of the typical 500K volume pot, 'darkening' to 250k, I used a 250K volume pot, and darken it with the resistor to 95k overall. I experimented with different values, and even 5k difference at that level made a noticeable difference. I was pretty surprised at that.
     
  11. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Time to call 920D / Sigler. They love to talk nerdy.
     
  12. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Holic

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    I tried splitting that Epi minibucker and got a surprising result - it was duller, weaker & lost brightness, same results with either coil. I expected weaker but not duller. So that's one switching option off the table.

    Yeah, my 120k with 500k pot comes out to around 97k calculated, measured likely less.
     
  13. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    My situation was a bit more complicated. The rosewood neck completely shifted the whole guitar - every setting - to just ridiculously bright. I brought overall resistance down to around 105k for neck and middle - in spite of the darker humbucker. And then brought it down to 95k for bridge, to balance.

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