NAD: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by NateD81, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Holic

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    There's a reason for that. Kemper's term for what it does is descriptive of what happens under the hood. The profiling process consists of feeding known patterns of audio through the amp and microphone being profiled, making a note of what's heard and applying the same set of differences (in the opposite direction) to the guitar signal. I can argue both sides of the debate over whether or not the profile a Kemper produces is technically a model, but I also don't think that's a hair that needs to be split.

    What have come to be called modeling amps run a mathematical model of an analog amplifier circuit in the DSP. That's why you can twiddle the knobs to your heart's content on a Blues Cube (I'm going to assume Fender used the same technique in the TMs) and Kemper requires that you re-profile the amp at different settings if you want something different.

    I think one of the fundamental problems in this discussion is that everything digital gets lumped together and digital gets lumped in with discrete solid state. I can't fault non-technical people for doing that, but there are differences and they do matter. That topic is on my list of blog posts to write, and I may get to it someday.

    Champion vs. Kemper is an apples-to-suspension-bridges comparison. Make a Champion capable of doing what a Kemper does and the price will rise to be comparable.
     
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  2. jgmouton

    jgmouton Tele-Meister

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    They use a digital simulation with a Solid State amplification.
     
  3. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    One good thing about these amps is their ergonomic utility. Engineers have a tendency to "feature creep". They think the best way to make something
    more desirable is to add features. Whether it be digital cameras, automobiles, or many other products, as they get loaded with features they get
    confusing to the user.

    The best products are designed very smartly so that while there may be a lot of really sophisticated stuff happening, it's all
    hidden behind a curtain and the user encounters a really simple interface. This was where Steve Jobs was smart, IMO. His design aesthetic made him
    insist on keeping the interface simple and intuitive, sometimes almost to a fault. I am picturing the designers and engineers at Fender working hard
    to zero in on the right combination of features and interface that would achieve the right balance. In an earlier post I suggested a few additional features
    that could be provided with a single additional knob....but I certainly applaud them for erring on the side of simplicity rather than going all-in for
    complexity.

    The complexity is what turns me off to things like Helix, Kemper, etc.--- I don't need to be able to sound like any amp going through
    any cabinet through any microphone. I just need a few really good foundational tones and I can take it from there. These are the first modeling offerings
    that actually tempt me, so I guess there marketers were focused on old tube amp curmudgeons as an important market segment....
     
  4. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    What do you think of the Roland Tone Capsules, as a product design? https://www.roland.com/ca/categories/amplifiers/guitar_bass_amplifiers/. There are about $200 each.
     
  5. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Very interesting idea but they seem too pricy to me. I've also heard that they don't necessarily change the tone all that much. But I haven't tried it so people who have
    actually tried the different capsules probably can speak more accurately to that question. But IMO something like $50 per capsule would be much more marketable.
    At $200 it seems like lots of people would opt to try using a lower cost effects pedal instead to alter their tone.
     
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  6. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I played the Andy/Reverb video where he compares the tube one with the new one. I watched it once myself and then played it for a buddy.

    He thinks he still has good ears but he picked the tube version as the tonemaster and vice versa.

    I knew what was what and that the first one was the tone master but - we both agreed on one thing – We could make far better use of the tone master than the DRRI.

    Plus since my ears are so bad , that digital emulation/profiling/modeling is perfectly fine for me.
     
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  7. Webfoot

    Webfoot Tele-Holic

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    How does the new speaker sound?
     
  8. foundjoe

    foundjoe Tele-Holic

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    And on the other end, does it power up slowly like a tube amp (and other digital amps) when it's first turned on?

    Second thought, with the amp power scaled down, does it sound significantly different from a Champion 40, which costs much, much less? Just seem like a lot of people are most interested in the Tone Master series due to the weight and power scaling, but you can already get Fender modeled tones at low weight and low power for much lower prices. The TMs seem like overkill unless you plan on gigging.
     
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  9. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Tele-Afflicted

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    This is a very smart observation. The AppleTV remote is fantastic - it has like one button. My TiVo remote does all the same things as my Comcast remote - with half as many buttons. I always feel liberated playing my Pro Jr: two knobs.
     
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  10. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Tele-Afflicted

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    There have been a few of these threads now, and everything seems to boil down to two factors: performance and cost. (I suppose that’s true for any product.)

    The amp has to sound great. There are already tons of modeling amps out there that sorta kinda sound like a DR or TR. The TM has to absolutely nail it. If it doesn’t, then it’s DOA.

    As for cost, while it’s tempting to think it’s overpriced, think of it this way. If you can have one amp for gigging, low volume bedroom playing, and recording, that one can replace several. The idea of a DR that weighs less than a Princeton Reverb, costs less than a Princeton Reverb, sounds great at PR volume, but is still a legit DR, is a pretty strong sell. (Yes, I know the DR sounds different than a PR, it’s just a comparison.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  11. NateD81

    NateD81 Tele-Meister

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    It takes no more than 10 seconds I’d say to be ready to go. Definitely quicker than my DRRI and Princeton.

    Regarding how it sounds attenuated - can’t comment on the Champion 40, but it sounds like a Deluxe Reverb up and down the dial, imo.
     
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  12. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I've owned the Champion 40 and 20. They are fun amps. They can do a decent clean DR or TR sound. Not so much the PR. I use them for my lap steel when we play in quite settings. Their dynamics don't even remotely approximate a real DR or TR to me. Nor does the breakup. The breakup is cool, but not like a real corollary. If the mix gets louder, they get lost, not just because of volume. No "punch" (whatever that means). Don't get me wrong, the Champions are good, fun amps. But the TMDR is just a different animal.
     
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  13. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Holic

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    In that video, played through my cheap computer headphones, and not knowing which was which, I preferred the Tonemaster.
     
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  14. Apache Snow

    Apache Snow TDPRI Member

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    My friend has a Champion 100. My Tone Master deluxe reverb sounds 10 times better to me. There is no comparison.
     
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  15. BigD

    BigD Friend of Leo's

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    I’m glad I bought a nice tube DRRI as the thought just crossed my mind that Fender might eventually get out of the tube amp business. Probably not but...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

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    I consider these too fundamentally flawed from a user perspective.
    What could have made it somewhat acceptable would have been multiple sockets so the fake tubes could have remained in the amp so different sounds are available when you are actually playing the amp.
    And way overpriced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  17. NewKid

    NewKid Tele-Holic

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    Saw the Tonemaster Deluxe in the store again yesterday and I think it’s just too big for my bedroom. I think I’ll just stick with my Pro Junior and consider one of those Weber Mini Mass attenuators for $100.
     
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  18. foundjoe

    foundjoe Tele-Holic

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    Does it sound 10 times better with power scaled all the way down?
     
  19. Kerberos

    Kerberos Tele-Holic

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    First off, congratulations on your new amp! I think you made a great decision on picking this TMDR, you gave it a lot of thought, and it fits the bill. I own a 65 DRRI, and I think these Tonemasters sound as good, and maybe better than the tube counterpart. Good luck with it. I'm sure your wife and little one are thrilled as well. Have fun making great music!
     
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  20. EsquireBoy

    EsquireBoy Tele-Meister

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    I’m 100% with you on that. I have a small THR-5 that I love to play at home, and although it’s pretty simple, I end up using the same amp preset 99% of the time.
    If I played the piano, I would have one that I love the sound of, and rely on it thereafter day after day. I don’t know why but that’s how I like to approach the guitar. And when I want to explore different tones, I switch and trade gear: that is a great part of the fun for me.
     
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