NAD...1966 Fender Pro Reverb. Circuit Questions

KeepItSimpleTele

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
168
Age
43
Location
Vancouver
IMG_1521.JPG

Got a new amp today! 1966 Fender Pro Reverb. Transformer date codes check out. Has replacement Jensen C12Q speakers, 3 prong grounding, and a cap job...but otherwise is original. I'm going to clean up the grill cloth and tolex with some Spray-Nine and let air dry. Since the speakers were replaced already...seriously considering a pair of Celestion NEO v-Types in here to keep the weight down and give it more of a midrange bark.

Speaking of midrange...I had a question about the circuit. It's supposed to be the AA165. I thought this circuit was a brief precursor to the Bassman AB165? It's a bit of an odd duck and the only other Fender blackface amp I can think of that has this AA165 circuit. I'd love some information on this circuit from the forum.
 
Last edited:

AntonyB

TDPRI Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Posts
35
Location
California, USA
Use Meguire's convertible top cleaner to get that tolex looking like it's fresh from yesterday.
I just did this on a '67 Vibrolux Reverb and it's shocking how easy it is and how fast it works.

Discovered and tried following this guy's amp cleaning video

Regarding the circuit, can you share a pic of the tube chart and if possible the inside of the amp?
I just spend a month restoring my Vibrolux reverb and it's pretty much the same circuit.
What do you want to know?
 
Last edited:

AlbertaGriff

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Posts
2,105
Location
Canada
Fender Amp circuit numbers are 'somewhat' unique to the amps they inhabit.

Lots of BF Fenders are AB763 but have different components such as tube compliment and transformers. Those circuit numbers mainly refer to the dates they were designed - AA165 is from January (1) of 1965 (65).

Really, you need to include the model with the circuit number. A Bassman AA165 is not at all the same as a Pro Reverb AA165. A Pro Reverb AA165 has more in common with a Twin Reverb AB763 than it does with any Bassman.
 

KeepItSimpleTele

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
168
Age
43
Location
Vancouver
Fender Amp circuit numbers are 'somewhat' unique to the amps they inhabit.

Lots of BF Fenders are AB763 but have different components such as tube compliment and transformers. Those circuit numbers mainly refer to the dates they were designed - AA165 is from January (1) of 1965 (65).

Really, you need to include the model with the circuit number. A Bassman AA165 is not at all the same as a Pro Reverb AA165. A Pro Reverb AA165 has more in common with a Twin Reverb AB763 than it does with any Bassman.
I hear people calling the Pro Reverb a "baby Twin"...but to me it has more in common with a Vibrolux or a Vibroverb. More grind. The circuit definitely sounds more AA864 Bassman-like when driven than a twin.
 

AlbertaGriff

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Posts
2,105
Location
Canada
I hear people calling the Pro Reverb a "baby Twin"...but to me it has more in common with a Vibrolux or a Vibroverb. More grind. The circuit definitely sounds more AA864 Bassman-like when driven than a twin.

You could say a Vibrolux is a baby Pro. Someone like @Wally would be able to explain the differences between the BF Reverb amps and the Bassman amps, but suffice to say most BF Reverb amps have more in common with each other than they do to a Bassman of the same era.
 

KeepItSimpleTele

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
168
Age
43
Location
Vancouver
Use Meguire's convertible top cleaner to get that tolex looking like it's fresh from yesterday.
I just did this on a '67 Vibrolux Reverb and it's shocking how easy it is and how fast it works.

Discovered and tried following this guy's amp cleaning video

Regarding the circuit, can you share a pic of the tube chart and if possible the inside of the amp?
I just spend a month restoring my Vibrolux reverb and it's pretty much the same circuit.
What do you want to know?
Chassis seems pretty clean. I'll have to open it up and check on the work done.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1528.JPG
    IMG_1528.JPG
    249.7 KB · Views: 92
  • IMG_1527.JPG
    IMG_1527.JPG
    269.7 KB · Views: 92

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
41,734
Location
Lubbock, TX
I hear people calling the Pro Reverb a "baby Twin"...but to me it has more in common with a Vibrolux or a Vibroverb. More grind. The circuit definitely sounds more AA864 Bassman-like when driven than a twin.

All of the BF/SF reverb amps have the same preamp. The differences lie in some of the phase inverters….Princeton Reverbs have a cathodyne PI while all of the rest have long tail pair PIs…and rectification….the Twin Reverb and Dual Showman Reverb have solid state rectification.
That solid state rectifier is the reason why the TR and DSR do not want to break up in the manner of the smaller reverb amps.
That said, the AB165 through Bassman 50 amps overdrive in a manner that no Fender reverb amp will. This is because although these Bassman amps and the reverb amps all have three gain stages, the reverb and tremolo circuits eat gain. The Bassman amps have more preamp gain for this reason, and these Bassman’s Normal channel is a ‘hotter’ guitar amp than any other BF/SF Fender amp.
 

KeepItSimpleTele

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
168
Age
43
Location
Vancouver
Still rocking just the two gain stages in the normal channel on this AA165 Pro Reverb…and the three in the Vibrato channel (where a lot of the gain is chewed up by the reverb and trem). Still…has more grind than my Bandmaster (though the Bandmaster I’ll put up as the ultimate pedal platform any day!).

What are the opinions out there on speaker choices for a Pro Reverb? It came to me with new Jensen C12Q speakers. Thinking of some Celestion Neo V-Types for a good rock amp. I’m into AC/DC rhythm tones and not breaking my back with this combo :)
 

InstantCoffeeBlue

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Posts
667
Age
36
Location
Milwaukee, WI
What are the opinions out there on speaker choices for a Pro Reverb? It came to me with new Jensen C12Q speakers. Thinking of some Celestion Neo V-Types for a good rock amp. I’m into AC/DC rhythm tones and not breaking my back with this combo :)

Back when I had my '67 Pro Reverb, I settled on a pair of Eminence Legend 1258s.

I don't usually love Celestion/Fender combos but it sounds like for what you're after, the Neo V-types would be a decent choice. Go for it and let us know how it works out!
 

schmee

Telefied
Silver Supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
20,164
Location
northwest
View attachment 978184
Got a new amp today! 1966 Fender Pro Reverb. Transformer date codes check out. Has replacement Jensen C12Q speakers, 3 prong grounding, and a cap job...but otherwise is original. I'm going to clean up the grill cloth and tolex with some Spray-Nine and let air dry. Since the speakers were replaced already...seriously considering a pair of Celestion NEO v-Types in here to keep the weight down and give it more of a midrange bark.

Speaking of midrange...I had a question about the circuit. It's supposed to be the AA165. I thought this circuit was a brief precursor to the Bassman AB165? It's a bit of an odd duck and the only other Fender blackface amp I can think of that has this AA165 circuit. I'd love some information on this circuit from the forum.
The Pro had little to do with a Bassman. Unless you are just talking early Fender amp design philosophy. Although nearly all the BF reverb models above the Princeton are very similar is design. The AA vs AB versions of Fender schems were simply corrections/revisions indicating minor tweaks to the circuit after initial results of using the amp. I think the Pro stayed at AA.

I wouldn't do much to the grill cloth, that mojo is highly coveted on BF amps.
While I had the Oxfords in my Pro Rev rebuilt I used a couple of Chinese Celestion Greenbacks in it. They were surprisingly good and not heavy speakers. Although at 50 watts total for 2, marginal in wattage handling.
 
Last edited:

schmee

Telefied
Silver Supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
20,164
Location
northwest
View attachment 978184
Got a new amp today! 1966 Fender Pro Reverb. Transformer date codes check out. Has replacement Jensen C12Q speakers, 3 prong grounding, and a cap job...but otherwise is original. I'm going to clean up the grill cloth and tolex with some Spray-Nine and let air dry. Since the speakers were replaced already...seriously considering a pair of Celestion NEO v-Types in here to keep the weight down and give it more of a midrange bark.

Speaking of midrange...I had a question about the circuit. It's supposed to be the AA165. I thought this circuit was a brief precursor to the Bassman AB165? It's a bit of an odd duck and the only other Fender blackface amp I can think of that has this AA165 circuit. I'd love some information on this circuit from the forum.
Not sure why some idiot put those two screws on the bottom of the grill from the front, but if you take them out, you can usually use a sharp point and pull the grillcloth threads back into place and the old screw holes be unnoticable...

Although as big as a Twin, they can be nice, big and full sounding. I wouldn't go too efficient on replacement speakers, rather let the amp breathe a bit with lower efficiency.... The Emi GB128 may be a good fit as Wally suggests. The Cannabis Rex is a good option too. Although both are louder than Greenbacks.
Personally I wouldn't put the 1258's in it unless you play quite loud.
 
Last edited:

KeepItSimpleTele

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
168
Age
43
Location
Vancouver
The Emi GB128 is a great speaker in BF/SF Fenders….strong low end, high end sparkle without harshness and a warn woody tone overall.
I have used GB128 speakers in some old Traynor amps from the same period and I really like them. Although they aren’t super heavy speakers…still concerned about the overall weight of the combo. My back isn’t like it was 25 yrs ago! I guess I am wondering if I’d get a similar tone with the Neo V types and save 8 lbs on the combo.
 

schmee

Telefied
Silver Supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
20,164
Location
northwest
I think speakers are your only opportunity to save weight really. Unfortunately they are a lot of an amp's sound. What will be more important in the end? The 8# or the tone? It seems like Neo speakers never stay long when someone tries them to me, but maybe that not true....?
Thos C12Q's are pretty light speakers. I imagine they are a bit harsh sounding? I wonder if the PO chose them for weight?
 

InstantCoffeeBlue

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Posts
667
Age
36
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I have used GB128 speakers in some old Traynor amps from the same period and I really like them. Although they aren’t super heavy speakers…still concerned about the overall weight of the combo. My back isn’t like it was 25 yrs ago! I guess I am wondering if I’d get a similar tone with the Neo V types and save 8 lbs on the combo.

Another option you might want to consider are the Jensen Mod 12-35s. I don't love the "reissue" Jensens, but these seem to get good reviews from folks who find the normal Jensen reissue series too shrill. They're as light as the Celestion Neos, supposed to be a blend of British and American characteristics, and very inefficient which will let you access some crunch at reasonable levels. And they're cheap.
 

RoscoeElegante

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Posts
4,967
Location
TooFarFromCanada
Great score, KeepItSimpleTele!

I can "help" only very anecdotally, as I have a '74 Bandmaster Reverb, not a '66 Pro Reverb. But having paired my BMR with two Eminence 1258's, I can say that these speakers give beautifully balanced tones. They've got a lot of depth, too, so this balance never seems sterile. So I concur with InstantCoffeeBlue here. Eminence makes some fine stuff.

To bounce off what Wally said above about Emi GB128's rich mids and woody qualities, check out WGS's American Vintage line.
https://wgsusa.com/american-vintage-grid
The G12C/S might be a beautiful match for your tone preferences. My G10C/S in another cab is the richest out-of-the-box speaker I ever heard, and just got better after that. It seems to round every edge. Ringing mids with smooth high end.
 

BluesOwl

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Posts
857
Location
MI
Still…has more grind than my Bandmaster (though the Bandmaster I’ll put up as the ultimate pedal platform any day!).
If you have a non-reverb BF bandmaster, it has a SS rectifier. Tube rectifier = lovely grind potential IMO. So a SF Bandmaster Reverb has more grind potential than a BF Bandmaster.
Had a 65 BM for years...such a sweet clean. I use a 70 BMR now...'lil more R'nR with the 5U4 rect. tube. Pro Reverb should be similar.
 

SoK66

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Posts
1,713
Location
Four Corners USA
Nice amp there Mr Lucky! I scored a '66 back in Novemeber and haven't turned it off since. On my previous '66 Pro Reverb I removed the baffle and used gerald Weber's recommendation of a very weak solution of Simple Green sprayed on, gently brushed with a soft bristle paint brush, then gently rinsed thoroughly. It came out great. An amazing amount of beer stains, cigarette smoke gunk and dirt came off.

If the baffle is particle board it could warp, so mount it back into the amp to dry for 24 hours.
 

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
41,734
Location
Lubbock, TX
On my previous '66 Pro Reverb I removed the baffle and used gerald Weber's recommendation of a very weak solution of Simple Green sprayed on, gently brushed with a soft bristle paint brush, then gently rinsed thoroughly.

iirc, G. Weber’s recommendation back in the ‘90s was to take it to the car wash and spray it down. I always laugh about that one. I have it in an old VG somewhere if I did not throw it away. That old newsprint doesn’t hold up very well. The stack is yellowed…and dirty…but it is there.
 




Top