My Mildly Complicated Relationship with The Dead Milkmen

THX1123

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I've always liked the band. I got a copy of Big Lizard in My Backyard LP from my brother in 1985. I really REALLY liked it. My first college band was even called Serrated Edge after a Milkmen song. Between Joe Jack's clean SG sound, The Smithereens use of SGs and Ricks, and Evan Dando's clean & dirty SG sounds (as well as Ian MacKaye's) I was influenced to buy an SG in 1990. I really liked the clean sounds, and Joe-Jack pointed me in the right way. Seeing Dando play an SG through both a clean Marshall halfstack and a Dirty Marshall halfstack, switching between them and sometimes having them both on at the same time was revelatory. The SG seemed to have a good top-end character whether crunchy or not.

I managed to get a copy of Eat Your Paisley on 12" vinyl in Toronto before seeing the Milkmen at Buffalo State in summer 1986 (I think). The Goo Goo Dolls opened. It was one of the Goo's first shows. They set up in the corner of the gym and played before the Milkmen. The early crowd watched them from a distance, and with trepidation. I liked their punk-pop Replacements-ish Husker-Du-ish sound, but they looked a little like poison, but wearing rags. The Goo Goo Dolls were an outright loud and sloppy punk-pop experience back then. We'd later get to know the Goos as our bands came up, and we opened for them several times. The bass player Robbie also produced some of our recordings.

At that first Milkmen show there was a good pit going. The band were all very short people, and they were all physically dirty. Joe's SG tone live confirmed to me that I wanted an SG. At the time I had a Rickenbacker as my main guitar, which was awesome - but Ricks sound like Ricks.

The Buffalo Stat Gym was hot and sweaty. A kid's thumb got hooked on my chain in the mosh pit and he ripped it off my neck. I almost pummeled him; he was scared. He found the chain on the ground and handed it to me. We went our own ways. Years later I would work with him at a hardware store. We laughed about it. He had become much larger and tougher by then.

Fast forward to the early 1990s. My band is doing well. We made good money gigging around and we'd saved enough to record in real studios four times, and put out a couple cassettes and a CD (which was a big deal in 1991, by the way). The local college station, WBNY played our songs a lot - possibly because we had good recordings, pretty good songs, and now a CD. We had a good relationship with the station, and I knew all the folks down there. I ended up "winning" tickets to an Enigma Records event in Syracuse, NY. It included concert tickets and a chartered bus ride round trip for all the winners to and from Buf State. The lineup was amazing - Mojo Nixon, The Cave Dogs, and The Dead Milkmen.

Between Mojo Nixon and The Cave Dogs (both bands were amazing - I was a Cave Dogs Fan from that moment on) I was hanging around the front of the stage. I'd had some beers and some short guy (He had to be short, I am only 5' 6") and his girlfriend were in front of me leaning on the security fence. I tripped and spilled my whole beer down the guy's back. The beer flowed in seemingly slow motion, completely soaking his jacket and pants and boots. He turned around and it was the Dead Milkmen's original bass player Dave. He and his girlfriend stared at me impassively. I just stood there impassively, holding a 3/4 empty beer cup, a slow smirk involuntarily building on my face. This odd, silent standoff went of for far too long. I might have mumbled sorry while trying to suppress the smirk - I don't remember.

It was odd because my bass playing had been heavily influenced by this man. I had a trio at the time where I played bass. I had a handful of Mike Watt, Skip Batten, and Dave from the Milkmen in my style. I should be apologizing to him and talking bass, not standing there smirking like a some yob or hick bully.

Eventually they just walked away like nothing happened, and so did I. The Milkmen came on after the Cave Dogs, who blew the roof off. Joe Jack was now playing a Les Paul that said "Killdozer" on it instead of an SG, but Dave had the same trusty Music Man bass. He was also wearing the same clothes I had soaked with beer about an hour before then.

That bass player, Dave, died a few years later. Too bad I didn't take the chance to say sorry and to thank him for the excellent music...but that wouldn't be as good a story, no?
 
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tele_pathic

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Great story. Thanks for sharing. I, too, listen the dead milkman often. Like you, I got Big Lizard about 1985.
 

Whatizitman

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Never followed them much beyond the radio (college) singles. But I definitely thought - and still think to this day - that Beelzebubba is the best album title ever. Period.
 

drmordo

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They really were a great band, and kinda weirdly, they were the only 'punk' band I ever really get into. One of my closest friends (for ~30 years) is a huge punk fan. He's always trying to play me stuff he thinks I'll like. I do like a lot of it, but not enough to buy all their albums. After we had been friends for a decade, the Milkmen came up in conversation and he was just amazed that I had a thorough and deep knowledge of all their albums up to that point.

I think I still have all of their classic albums on LP.
 

edvard

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I knew a girl once whose favorite song was "The Badger Song". Later, I was mildly confused, then vastly entertained by "You'll Dance To Anything". I once sang the chorus to "Bitchin Camaro" when a friend of mine was considering buying one. We laughed and he said that if he got it, he'd blast that song everywhere he went.

That's all I got.
 

max_twang

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I've always liked the band. I got a copy of Big Lizard in My Backyard LP from my brother in 1985. I really REALLY liked it. My first college band was even called Serrated Edge after a Milkmen song. Between Joe Jack's clean SG sound, The Smithereens use of SGs and Ricks, and Evan Dando's clean & dirty SG sounds (as well as Ian MacKaye's) I was influenced to buy an SG in 1990. I really liked the clean sounds, and Joe-Jack pointed me in the right way. Seeing Dando play an SG through both a clean Marshall halfstack and a Dirty Marshall halfstack, switching between them and sometimes having them both on at the same time was revelatory. The SG seemed to have a good top-end character whether crunchy or not.

I managed to get a copy of Eat Your Paisley on 12" vinyl in Toronto before seeing the Milkmen at Buffalo State in summer 1986 (I think). The Goo Goo Dolls opened. It was one of the Goo's first shows. They set up in the corner of the gym and played before the Milkmen. The early crowd watched them from a distance, and with trepidation. I liked their punk-pop Replacements-ish Husker-Du-ish sound, but they looked a little like poison, but wearing rags. The Goo Goo Dolls were an outright loud and sloppy punk-pop experience back then. We'd later get to know the Goos as our bands came up, and we opened for them several times. The bass player Robbie also produced some of our recordings.

At that first Milkmen show there was a good pit going. The band were all very short people, and they were all physically dirty. Joe's SG tone live confirmed to me that I wanted an SG. At the time I had a Rickenbacker as my main guitar, which was awesome - but Ricks sound like Ricks.

The Buffalo Stat Gym was hot and sweaty. A kid's thumb got hooked on my chain in the mosh pit and he ripped it off my neck. I almost pummeled him; he was scared. He found the chain on the ground and handed it to me. We went our own ways. Years later I would work with him at a hardware store. We laughed about it. He had become much larger and tougher by then.

Fast forward to the early 1990s. My band is doing well. We made good money gigging around and we'd saved enough to record in real studios four times, and put out a couple cassettes and a CD (which was a big deal in 1991, by the way). The local college station, WBNY played our songs a lot - possibly because we had good recordings, pretty good songs, and now a CD. We had a good relationship with the station, and I knew all the folks down there. I ended up "winning" tickets to an Enigma Records event in Syracuse, NY. It included concert tickets and a chartered bus ride round trip for all the winners to and from Buf State. The lineup was amazing - Mojo Nixon, The Cave Dogs, and The Dead Milkmen.

Between Mojo Nixon and The Cave Dogs (both bands were amazing - I was a Cave Dogs Fan from that moment on) I was hanging around the front of the stage. I'd had some beers and some short guy (He had to be short, I am only 5' 6") and his girlfriend were in front of me leaning on the security fence. I tripped and spilled my whole beer down the guy's back. The beer flowed in seemingly slow motion, completely soaking his jacket and pants and boots. He turned around and it was the Dead Milkmen's original bass player Dave. He and his girlfriend stared at me impassively. I just stood there impassively, holding a 3/4 empty beer cup, a slow smirk involuntarily building on my face. This odd, silent standoff went of for far too long. I might have mumbled sorry while trying to suppress the smirk - I don't remember.

It was odd because my bass playing had been heavily influenced by this man. I had a trio at the time where I played bass. I had a handful of Mike Watt, Skip Batten, and Dave from the Milkmen in my style. I should be apologizing to him and talking bass, not standing there smirking like a some yob or hick bully.

Eventually they just walked away like nothing happened, and so did I. The Milkmen came on after the Cave Dogs, who blew the roof off. Joe Jack was now playing a Les Paul that said "Killdozer" on it instead of an SG, but Dave had the same trusty Music Man bass. He was also wearing the same clothes I had soaked with beer about an hour before then.

That bass player, Dave, died a few years later. Too bad I didn't take the chance to say sorry and to thank him for the excellent music...but that wouldn't be as good a story, no?

Ah memories!

I worked on that tour. It was called "Amok in America," and as you mentioned featured the Milkmen, Cave Dogs and Mojo. They were all on Enigma, and about midway through the tour, Enigma went belly up. A very Spinal Tap moment to be sure. The tour was a series of one-nighters starting on the East coast, and ended in San Juan Capistrano if I remember correctly. Early on in the tour, we stayed at a little motel in Hayes, Kansas. (Hayes' claim to fame is it's the geographic center of the US.) The following morning, the buses left in the super early, nobody knocked on my door to let me know, and they drove away while I was still sleeping in the motel. I had to take a puddle jumper to Colorado to catch up with the tour. The plane was so small that me and the one other passenger had to sit way in back to balance the weight of the pilot and co-pilot.

The Cave Dogs were touring in support of their first album, "Joy Rides for Shut Ins." Highly recommended! Really great power pop, high energy, early The Who vibe. Unfortunately, with their label out of business, it didn't get the level of promotion it deserved. Their second album (Soul Martini) didn't take off, and the band broke up.

I'm not surprised that nothing happened after you spilled your beer on Dave. He was a super nice guy, and quite intelligent. He would never have slugged you, but I'm sure you got a very dirty look. I considered him a friend and was deeply saddened when he took his life. I still think about him and wish that I had kept in touch, but life took me in another direction.

By the way, Joe Jack was playing an L6S on that tour, not a Les Paul. I think a Les Paul would have weighed more than him -- he was tiny!
 

THX1123

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Ah memories!

I worked on that tour. It was called "Amok in America," and as you mentioned featured the Milkmen, Cave Dogs and Mojo. They were all on Enigma, and about midway through the tour, Enigma went belly up. A very Spinal Tap moment to be sure. The tour was a series of one-nighters starting on the East coast, and ended in San Juan Capistrano if I remember correctly. Early on in the tour, we stayed at a little motel in Hayes, Kansas. (Hayes' claim to fame is it's the geographic center of the US.) The following morning, the buses left in the super early, nobody knocked on my door to let me know, and they drove away while I was still sleeping in the motel. I had to take a puddle jumper to Colorado to catch up with the tour. The plane was so small that me and the one other passenger had to sit way in back to balance the weight of the pilot and co-pilot.

The Cave Dogs were touring in support of their first album, "Joy Rides for Shut Ins." Highly recommended! Really great power pop, high energy, early The Who vibe. Unfortunately, with their label out of business, it didn't get the level of promotion it deserved. Their second album (Soul Martini) didn't take off, and the band broke up.

I'm not surprised that nothing happened after you spilled your beer on Dave. He was a super nice guy, and quite intelligent. He would never have slugged you, but I'm sure you got a very dirty look. I considered him a friend and was deeply saddened when he took his life. I still think about him and wish that I had kept in touch, but life took me in another direction.

By the way, Joe Jack was playing an L6S on that tour, not a Les Paul. I think a Les Paul would have weighed more than him -- he was tiny!
Awesome details, thanks for sharing!

I'm not sure why I just stood there after spilling my beer on Dave. To this day I can't explain. I've always liked a good prank or jibe, and I've had a few odd encounters with celebrity (I learned Art Alexakis takes some things very seriously, btw), but spilling a beer on one of my primary bass influences and then acting the mute hick dope wasn't ever in the playbook.

The Milkmen and Mojo were great that night. I think Mojo might have ranted a little too much about Country Dick, but his band was great. I think The Cave Dogs impressed me the most. They closed with I Need You, that Kinks cover. After they were done leveling the place my buddy turned to me and said "why can't you guys do that?" - meaning why didn't my band whip up excitement and power in a similar way? I had no answer, but I made it a goal to try and learn how to reach that level of power and excitement. It was very Who-like in intensity. I'm not sure we ever got there, but it felt like we might have gotten close a few times.

I'm pretty sure Joe Jack had a KIlldozer LP on...maybe there's an L6-S in my memories...but I could easily be mixing up experiences. It was 30 years ago. Maybe the Killdozer LP was from another show or video.

Regardless, the sound of that barely-overdriven Gibson pounding away and crispy Music Man Bass carrying the movement and melody were a huge thing for me.
 

THX1123

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Great story! Now that you've intrigued us, can you share this one?
Everclear was playing at a club, and my band was playing a different one the same night. After our set I went to the Everclear show. It was over, so we just walked in. Art was walking around. A guy who had produced one of our recording sessions had worked with Everclear. They had a good-natured difference of opinion over Mesa vs. Marshall amps. I mentioned to Art that we had a common friend and we started chatting.

Everything was going well until I started getting bored. I asked him if he would ever eat a peanut butter and bologna sandwich. His face just changed completely, he did a 180 and walked away. It probably sounds more amusing than it was, or vice versa.

This is quite unlike my drummer's Dave Pirner story. I had run into Soul Asylum in NYC. We were doing overdubs in a recording studio downstairs and they were upstairs cutting a song for a movie soundtrack. Pirner popped in and was friendly and had a listen. Winona Ryder was lurking about behind him, as they were dating then. I ran into Winona in the hallway later that night with a cotton swab in my ear. Less than ideal. But when my drummer friend met Pirner at a Soul Asylum gig in a smaller club Pirner was friendly also. They had a long conversation, but after a while he wouldn't leave my friend alone and followed him around the bar - to the point that my friend was a little freaked out and had trouble shaking him.
 
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beyer160

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I have a mildly complicated relationship with the Dead Milkmen, too. I also got their debut LP in 1985, and eagerly bought the next two (Eat Your Paisley and Bucky Fellini). By the time of Beelzebubba though, I was older and jokey pun crock was losing its appeal. Also, on that (their fourth) record you can start to hear that what had once sounded so effortlessly tossed off was now seeming labored and forced. The surprise success of "Punk Rock Girl" shoved Joe into the spotlight, and things in the band were never the same. Still... those first three records are great.


The Cave Dogs were touring in support of their first album, "Joy Rides for Shut Ins." Highly recommended! Really great power pop, high energy, early The Who vibe. Unfortunately, with their label out of business, it didn't get the level of promotion it deserved. Their second album (Soul Martini) didn't take off, and the band broke up.

The Cavedogs' second album is amazing- as great as "Joyrides" is, "Soul Martini" was a quantum leap forward. The problem was, it came out about two months after Nevermind topped the charts and bands like the Cavedogs were suddenly yesterday's news.
 
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