My CNC Building Adventure

nickhofen

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I think Spindle must be hanging between the Y plates and not in front of them for to have a sturdy axe.
xgantrylabeled.jpg.pagespeed.ic.4Davn5U1nm.jpg
 

JayneV

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I think Spindle must be hanging between the Y plates and not in front of them for to have a sturdy axe.
View attachment 907749
Hi Nick,

The gantry CG is closer to the front Y bearings but it is still between the front and back bearings. The image below is from an earlier version of the CNC, I am in the middle of fine tuning the CAD model so I am unable to make an updated calculation of the CG, but it should be similar to the attached image, maybe a little further back (to the left). After the cables are added, which will be attached to the back face of the gantry, the CG will move even further back, so it will end up being closer to the middle of the front and back Y bearings. However, the location of the CG is not that critical as long as the linear guides are able to handle rotational loads. I am planning to use square profile rails which a rated equally for forces in any directions.
upload_2021-10-9_22-18-9.png
Jayne
 

nickhofen

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Location
HELLAS, Land Of Heroes .
Hi Nick,

The gantry CG is closer to the front Y bearings but it is still between the front and back bearings. The image below is from an earlier version of the CNC, I am in the middle of fine tuning the CAD model so I am unable to make an updated calculation of the CG, but it should be similar to the attached image, maybe a little further back (to the left). After the cables are added, which will be attached to the back face of the gantry, the CG will move even further back, so it will end up being closer to the middle of the front and back Y bearings. However, the location of the CG is not that critical as long as the linear guides are able to handle rotational loads. I am planning to use square profile rails which a rated equally for forces in any directions.
View attachment 907759
Jayne

It looks like a good design to me then, I couldn't tell what you said from the picture.
 

JayneV

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Hi Nick, thank you.
Is there something you would like me to try and explain better? I added some labels to the image, does that help?
image.png

Jayne
 

JayneV

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Everything is clear , I am subscribed and ready to see the progress!
Cheers.
I’m glad you understood my explanation. Thank you for subscribing, this project will take some time to finish. Hopefully I will very soon be able to post some real life progress beyond the CAD drawings. Hope you enjoy journey.
Jayne
 

JayneV

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Hi everyone,
I went to my brother's workshop today and we made the first two parts for my machine. Well.....he made the parts, I watched because I didn't dare operate that expensive machine out of fear of making a mistake and causing damage.

The parts were very simple, just a couple spacers, but its a start. Woooohoooo
IMG_1628.JPG IMG_1631.JPG

The visible lines are light reflecting from the tool marks, the surface is actually very smooth. I'm thinking about lightly bead blasting al the parts to remove the glossy finish so marks won't show up as easily.

Also decided to give the machine a name so I'm not always referring to it as "the machine" or "the CNC". Its name is Carlos.....for no reason other than that was the first name that popped into my mind. :lol:

Jayne
 

JayneV

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YEAH!! You started working on Carlos!!

Is that a manual or automated mill at your brothers shop?

Congratulations!! This is going to be epic!
Thank you John. That is a CNC mill. The photo is taken through one of the viewing windows. While it is operating, there is ALOT of cutting fluid being directed to the cutter and it flies everywhere!

Thank you Nick

Carlos is destined to be "very worthy". :) Congrats on the official start of your build!

Thank you Jim. Im very excited to have made a start.
 

JayneV

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Hey everyone!

Well, Carlos has evolved considerably from the machine he started out to be. The problem with making a minor adjustment here and a little tweak there is that before you know it, you have rebuilt the entire machine from the ground up. This what Carlos looks like right now:
0F73FF34-D030-4700-92FD-6B520767AAE8.jpeg
F1EF3763-317E-4FEB-A464-AEA94D9C5C4E.jpeg

I moved the motors so they sit inside the envelope of the frame to try and save a little space. Carlos has grown to a size that is pushing the limits of the available space in my garage so by relocating the motors I was able to recover some of that valuable space. Of course, with the new location of the motors, they are unable to directly drive the ballscrews so a short timing belt and pulleys were introduced into the design. The image below is one of the Y-axis drives,
DA897401-95A3-4370-8E1F-CF715A339594.jpeg

And the next two images are the X-axis drive. The second image has a 3D pri yes cover to protect the belt and also to protect any carelessly placed fingers from being eaten by the machine.
A4E32AD5-9AE9-45B5-A910-1EB3A63558D5.jpeg
778331FB-57C6-4506-8358-77392031AC92.jpeg
I really liked the way the belt drives turned out but I am now running into issues with actually sourcing suitable belts and pulleys. A disadvantage with living on the other side of the world from all major industrial suppliers is that we don’t have access to all the items in a manufacturer’s catalogue so sourcing parts is either not possible or very expensive. This has made me take a break to rethink some of the design. I could persevere with the belt drives until I find the right parts or I can slightly shrink the size of the machine and move the motors back to the outside of the frame and direct drive the screws. Decisions, decisions!!! :confused: o_O :rolleyes:

So to give my brain a break from Carlos, I started modelling the first guitar project for Carlos after he is built. It is a Spector NS-2. @John Nicholas first introduced me to this beautiful bass guitar in one of his threads and I fell in love with it right away. I might also add that John is also responsible for inspiring me to build my own CNC machine after seeing the amazing work he is doing with his CNC build.

Those of you who know me know that I don’t know how to play so I am choosing to build instruments purely based on aesthetics. One of the members over at TalkBass was kind enough to make some lovely drawings of the Spector which I loaded into fusion 360 to create a 3D model. This is where the model is up to so far. Still a long way to go but it looks enough like a guitar to justify making a few rendered images.
The first two images are maple body and neck with walnut fretboard.
6B61DA95-0366-4B04-BCA3-432E2C8153C9.png
ED07773F-0B82-4FB1-B31D-539ED7A50295.png

These next images are using metal materials because they are shiny :D

First one is a bronze body with maple fretboard
0A8B7E64-DFCB-4C62-BDB6-522FACEF5737.png

And this one is platinum body with carbon fibre fretboard. If I remember, I’ll have a look at the estimated weight (according to fusion) of these solid metal guitars. I imagine they would be VERRRRY heavy, but it’s bit about being realistic, it’s all about a pretty, shiny object. :lol:
B3B1C8D7-D8AA-4722-8A42-AAEF48D5E301.jpeg

I hope to have Carlos all finalised very soon, I can’t wait to make a proper start on the construction. The two little parts I made at my brother’s shop were just a teaser so I can say that some real parts have been made outside of the CAD universe.

Have a wonderful day/evening everyone.
Jayne
 

nickhofen

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Joined
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Posts
4,336
Location
HELLAS, Land Of Heroes .
I like the new design ,it saves space.
Also the pulley system will save you from vibrations that you might experience from direct coupling the motors to ball screws.
I bought my pulleys and the synchronous pulleys bores from AliExpress.
You need pulley bores with two different size holes ,one to much the motors safts and another one to much the balls crews safts.
€ 8,88 | POWGE 20 Teeth HTD 5M Synchronous Pulley Bore 5/6/6.35/8/10/12/14/15mm for Width 15/20mm HTD5M Timing Belts wheel 20Teeth 20T
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mK1yIS2
€ 20,59 | 5 pieces HTD5M belt 275-5M-15 Teeth 55 Length 275mm Width 15mm 5M timing belt rubber closed-loop belt 275 HTD 5M S5M Belt Pulley
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOkUK5u
 

JayneV

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Hi Nick,
Saving space was the main reason I decided to use belts and pulleys. Do you use a 1:1 drive ratio on your machine or some other ratio?
The motors and ballscrew ends that I'm planning to use both have a 10mm shaft, so they can use the same size bore on the pulley. Most of the local suppliers sell pulleys with only a pilot bore hole which will then need to be machined to the correct size. I have access to my brother's machine shop so that part is not a problem.
From what I understand, the HTD tooth profile has more backlash that other profiles like AT, ATL or GT. I want as little backlash as possible. Some manufacturers also sell pulleys with slightly undersized grooves so the belt teeth reengaged on both the leading and trailing edge.
I started having a look at moving the motors back to the outside of the frame this evening, but I'm having a hard time letting go of the belts and pulleys, I really like that setup, so will do some more research to see if I can find a local supplier with reasonable prices. I'd rather buy locally than from overseas, because international shipping is still very slow, especially with Christmas just around the corner.

Jayne
 

John Nicholas

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Posts
2,852
Location
Poughkeepsie, NY
Hey everyone!

Well, Carlos has evolved considerably from the machine he started out to be. The problem with making a minor adjustment here and a little tweak there is that before you know it, you have rebuilt the entire machine from the ground up. This what Carlos looks like right now:
View attachment 913150
View attachment 913149

I moved the motors so they sit inside the envelope of the frame to try and save a little space. Carlos has grown to a size that is pushing the limits of the available space in my garage so by relocating the motors I was able to recover some of that valuable space. Of course, with the new location of the motors, they are unable to directly drive the ballscrews so a short timing belt and pulleys were introduced into the design. The image below is one of the Y-axis drives,
View attachment 913148

And the next two images are the X-axis drive. The second image has a 3D pri yes cover to protect the belt and also to protect any carelessly placed fingers from being eaten by the machine.
View attachment 913156
View attachment 913155
I really liked the way the belt drives turned out but I am now running into issues with actually sourcing suitable belts and pulleys. A disadvantage with living on the other side of the world from all major industrial suppliers is that we don’t have access to all the items in a manufacturer’s catalogue so sourcing parts is either not possible or very expensive. This has made me take a break to rethink some of the design. I could persevere with the belt drives until I find the right parts or I can slightly shrink the size of the machine and move the motors back to the outside of the frame and direct drive the screws. Decisions, decisions!!! :confused: o_O :rolleyes:

So to give my brain a break from Carlos, I started modelling the first guitar project for Carlos after he is built. It is a Spector NS-2. @John Nicholas first introduced me to this beautiful bass guitar in one of his threads and I fell in love with it right away. I might also add that John is also responsible for inspiring me to build my own CNC machine after seeing the amazing work he is doing with his CNC build.

Those of you who know me know that I don’t know how to play so I am choosing to build instruments purely based on aesthetics. One of the members over at TalkBass was kind enough to make some lovely drawings of the Spector which I loaded into fusion 360 to create a 3D model. This is where the model is up to so far. Still a long way to go but it looks enough like a guitar to justify making a few rendered images.
The first two images are maple body and neck with walnut fretboard.
View attachment 913153
View attachment 913152

These next images are using metal materials because they are shiny :D

First one is a bronze body with maple fretboard
View attachment 913154

And this one is platinum body with carbon fibre fretboard. If I remember, I’ll have a look at the estimated weight (according to fusion) of these solid metal guitars. I imagine they would be VERRRRY heavy, but it’s bit about being realistic, it’s all about a pretty, shiny object. :lol:
View attachment 913151

I hope to have Carlos all finalised very soon, I can’t wait to make a proper start on the construction. The two little parts I made at my brother’s shop were just a teaser so I can say that some real parts have been made outside of the CAD universe.

Have a wonderful day/evening everyone.
Jayne

Jayne,

You are far too kind! First those renders of the Spectre (we spell it differently than the original so there are no issues, as it's not an exact replica) are completely out of this world amazing! Just beautiful.

It's so nice to hear that I inspired you to build a CNC. You have taken so many designs and melded them into your own design that is one of the best I have seen anywhere. Should I build another machine, it will be using your design. It is so well thought out, elegant, beautiful and practical. I absolutely love it.

Since you have an engineers brain, I image you have taken using different sized pulleys to change the ratio of the motor to the ball screw, from the drawings it looks like you have kept it one to one.

By the way a solid platinum guitar!!! You'd need to be the Hulk to hold that one up! LOL!! That said, I love how all of them look! You are a wonderful designer. You go girl!
 

JayneV

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Hi John,

Thank you for clarifying how to spell Spectre for the replica. I have seen both spellings used and I didn’t know if it was a typo or one of the quirks of the English language like colour/color. I have always been a James Bond fan since childhood so it should be easy to remember Spectre, the same as the evil organisation in the Bond films. Hmmm, might give the guitar a Bond themed nickname when I eventually build it.

Thank you so much for your very lovely compliments. I am getting a lot of help with the way my design is progressing from the nice people over at CNCZone who are offering great advice and guidance to help me design the machine.

My plan is to use a 1:1 ratio for the pulleys. The stepper motors have enough torque, and the maximum torque is at low speeds and drops off as the motor speeds up. I will be using 10mm pitch ballscrews in the X and Y axes as a balance between machine speed and keeping the motors operating at a lower speed. The z axis will have a 5mm pitch so there is more force available for plunging while keeping the Z motor speed low. So the z axis will effectively move at half the speed as the X and Y axes but I’m not really worried about moving the z axis at a high speed.

The CAD model shows a 1:1 drive ratio for the pulleys but those are just dummy components I created as place holders until I figure out the exact belt and pulley sizes to use. Then I’ll update the model accordingly. If I use say a 1:2 ratio for the belt drive, I could then use a 5mm pitch screw and get the same result as a 1:1 ratio with a 10mm pitch screw. Going the other way with a 2:1 belt ratio, the motor would be running out of torque sooner. I’d have to think about that with a fresh mind in the morning. It’s late at night and I’ve been awake for over 36 hours and my mind is rather foggy right now.

I had to check the weight of the platinum guitar. I would struggle to move that let alone lift it. But it’s really shiny which is what’s important. LOL

I’m really loving Fusion. It took me a while to warm up to it though. When I used to have a windows computer back in the days when I spent more time cursing the computer than being productive with it, I played around with some other CAD programs. Alibre (I really liked that one), t-Flex CAD, SolidWorks. When I switched to Fusion, it took a while to adapt to the Fusion way of doing things but once I started getting the hang of it I fell in love with it. I’m really enjoying the design phase of Carlos and also enjoy creating CAD models of whatever comes my way, like the Spectre. (Lol, I had to think of the Bond movies to make sure I spelt Spectre correctly)

Jayne
 

nickhofen

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
4,336
Location
HELLAS, Land Of Heroes .
Hi Nick,
Saving space was the main reason I decided to use belts and pulleys. Do you use a 1:1 drive ratio on your machine or some other ratio?
The motors and ballscrew ends that I'm planning to use both have a 10mm shaft, so they can use the same size bore on the pulley. Most of the local suppliers sell pulleys with only a pilot bore hole which will then need to be machined to the correct size. I have access to my brother's machine shop so that part is not a problem.
From what I understand, the HTD tooth profile has more backlash that other profiles like AT, ATL or GT. I want as little backlash as possible. Some manufacturers also sell pulleys with slightly undersized grooves so the belt teeth reengaged on both the leading and trailing edge.
I started having a look at moving the motors back to the outside of the frame this evening, but I'm having a hard time letting go of the belts and pulleys, I really like that setup, so will do some more research to see if I can find a local supplier with reasonable prices. I'd rather buy locally than from overseas, because international shipping is still very slow, especially with Christmas just around the corner.

Jayne
Yes my ratio is 1:1 since the machine is made for milling wood and soft metal,like aluminium etc, also the gantry of the cnc is going to weigh about 45 kilos.
I know that shipping from China is a problem, same thing here.
About htd pulleys I don't have a previous experience but I have read that is not as bad as you mentioned.
On the other hand if there is backslash it will not be a problem to change them.
belts.PNG
 

JayneV

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Yes my ratio is 1:1 since the machine is made for milling wood and soft metal,like aluminium etc, also the gantry of the cnc is going to weigh about 45 kilos.
I know that shipping from China is a problem, same thing here.
About htd pulleys I don't have a previous experience but I have read that is not as bad as you mentioned.
On the other hand if there is backslash it will not be a problem to change them.
View attachment 913349
I found your CNC build thread today and will read it and continue following. It seems most people want to use their machines for similar reasons, ie. woodworking and aluminium. I'm looking forward to catching up on your build thread. It's always so interesting to follow other peoples projects.

With regards to belts and pulleys and which type is best for a CNC machine, the topic has started several "lively" discussions over at CNCZone. I don't have experience with any types of synchronous belts except for replacing the timing belt a few times on my first car, but that is a very different application. With so many different belts on the market and many varied opinions about which is best for a CNC router, I have become confused and uncertain about what to do. After a few days giving it some thought, I will take a similar approach to you and choose a system and if it turns out to have too much backlash, then it is easy to swap to another system. So my priority is now to try and find a local supplier with reasonable prices and use the best belt from within their available product range. I just sent emails to two local suppliers to see what they have to offer. If that fails, then I can buy from China.
 

Jim_in_PA

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SE PA - Doylestown PA
Nothing wrong with belts used for motion transfer between the steppers/servos and the driver system. My Camaster uses short belts for that purpose. As long as they are properly tensioned they do the job and can, in a small way, absorb some shock when "mental lapses" or bad material rock the boat. Improperly tensioned, they can add backlash and squares are no longer square and circles are no longer circular. ;)
 




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