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Discussion in 'Worship Service Players' started by GoldieLocks, Aug 21, 2019.
Get them to bring in a 5 piece horn section, then ask them if your amp is too loud. LOL!
Right! Then hope the sound guys know where all the cool
shelving parameters are. There's nothing wrong with HPF or LPF
if one knows where and when to utilize them.
We're still talking about IEMs right?
My church happens to have a hybrid wedge, IEM system
Let's say you have a guest Sax player on a Sunday,
do you put him on IEMs or do you let him be in the DSM ?
In general, all sax players love to hear themselves in the room
and how it affects their sense of dynamics. So let's say we put
the sax player in the wedges. As a guitar player I would raise my hand
and question why I can't have my amp on stage to monitor
my sense of dynamics too. It snowballs from there pretty easily.
That kind of sums up main issue (and why i'd be willing to play acoustic ONLY). On Sunday morning i'm endlessly improvising from chords to chord Substitutions to fills etc. - I do understand that if a Church setlist is fully worked out and all your volumes and Dynamics and chords etc are scripted then Go through the motions with IEM's. Basic good showbizness. (Like KISS tribute band)
Now, I do understand that WITH A GOOD SOUNDMAN and skilled musicians then those IEM's are fully capable of great jamming (I've read a few biographies of very skilled bands who could NOT pull this off). But: we church guitarists don't always get that reliability factor.
Well, if the set-list doesn't change....
I just got a picture of the entire band with their wireless transmitters leading the Church on a Jericho March
we have been using IEM's for a long time. keep your mind open about it. there WAY more positives than negatives.
your hearing will be saved, you will be able to hear everything going on MUCH better, including other musicians you typically struggled to hear. you will have a click aka metronome in your ears keeping you ALL in sync. that is a great thing i dont care who you are.
Plus the added benefits of having tracks. your bass player calls out last second, you dont need to scramble... just put bass parts in the loop.
you dont have to rely on stage volume to hear yourself. no more sharing wedges. no more compromising with all that is included in the mix. no more having to reset it week to week because people have been messing with it.
It all just makes sense! and if its losing your amp you are worried about, get or make an ISO box. problem solved! you dont need to go "digital" yet, although you would be missing out.
I don't think the OP is looking for solutions, I think he wants us all to join in his poo poo party. I've used in ears for years with an amp and iso box. I have no complaints other than the inability for controlled feedback. Generally not needed for P&W. Actually, with the iso box a can run my amp MUCH louder than I ever could on stage. So I get a miked amp working at higher natural edge of break-up.
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Just looking for a conversation. Do you ever have any negative experiences with your IEM's? Or is it Sunshine and Rainbows everyweek?
I just heard of the:
I'm curious. A cheaper solution than a Helix or Kemper or Axe or Iso-box.
I'll say it once again: I'm always willing to play acoustic and keep the volume down. It's the ROCKING OUT as quietly as possible that concerns me and has my POO POO Triggers ignited.
What about amplifying your acoustic guitar to ear-splitting volumes?
If that is what the gig and band require then...
But generally an acoustic guitar doesn't need to be louder than the Piano. Of course, if somebody has NO MORE AMPS in the memo, then they had better already have dealt with the DRUMS... or the issue would be Silly.
You are being far too rational and logical. I got really side ways with our main sound guy and our main drummer over this exactly. One day we were sitting around between services and I said to the sound guy "I don't understand why you are always harping on the electric guitar players to put our amps in the basement when you have the grand piano open on stage and you obviously have the maple shell drums along with drummers who use #4 sticks rather than #7's or rods. I went on to say that I would not take my amp off stage in the interest of stage volume, until the piano and drums were dealt with similarly.
The drummer had a fit. He explained that electronic drums were not a real option because they did not sound as good as the real thing. My response was that I would prefer to have at least a 50 watt Marshall or Hiwatt head on a 4x12 cab run wide open because it sounds soooooo much better than my 12 watt combo, but that rig would be too loud for the stage, just like the huge maple kit he is playing is not right for the setting. When I suggested that he put the drums in a totally enclosed plexi cage, he got offended. When I suggested that he get rid of the huge rock kit, and bring in a small jazz kit with dark cymbols, he said the tonality would not be right. In other words, the drummer was completely unwilling to compromise regarding tone and playability, and took the position that all other loud instruments would have to leave the stage to accomodate the drums because drum tonality and playability is sooooooo important. The piano players also were unwilling to get rid of the Steinway because of tone and playability.
So, long story tolerable, I told the sound guy that what I was hearing from the other players was that tone and playability are the most important consideration, so therefore, there was no way I could compromise my tone and interaction with my amp by putting my amp in a box or off stage closet. I agreed to set up my amp to match the drums and piano in volume. The positive side effect was that I could simply monitor the instruments with stage volume, and I was able to completely ditch the IEM's. The Piano player, the drummer, and the sound guy all thought I was being unreasonable. Luckily, the worship leader actually understood their complete lack of logic. It took standing up and refusing to be castigated for the WL to force the drummers to switch heads to quieter heads and to always use rods (they bitched and moaned non stop about it too), and to force the piano players to shut the piano and consciously play softer. After that happened, I offered to put my amp wherever the WL wanted me to put it. Ultimately he was OK with me turning the amp down to match the quieter drums. End result was a quieter stage, but the sound guy still wants the electric amps off stage. I told him that I would remove it as soon as the WL asked me to, but probably not before we put the drums in a cage or switch to an electronic set. Otherwise what is the point?
These folks do not understand that our amp is actually part of our instrument. What they want is actually a little like taking away a drummer's snare or cymbals. The instrument becomes incomplete.
You should get some kind of literary and Logic award for that story. As they're leading you away to the tallest tree.
(but if you've seen the Musketeers movie: Your bothers are always close-by to defend your honor. "All for One and One for All")
My biggest beef with IEM's in church is that our leaders adopted them because they were in vogue for contemporary worship teams, so we should try them, and because they "will solve the stage volume problem". It has taken years to convince our leaders that the IEM's have done nothing to reduce stage volume, other than they have eliminated wedges. But I guess if you shove the IEM's in your ears and can't hear the stage volume problem anymore, it just doesn't exist.
the solution to most churches IEM problems:
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE LOUD ROCK MUSIC IN YOUR CHURCH EVER!!!!!!
Nobody seemed to need them for playing LOUD organs over the last few 100 years. Weird eh?
We were chasing a 60 cycle hum from the bass amp on Sunday. Flipping the ground lift on a D/I solved the issue but it took me til Tuesday afternoon to find it. (after swapping out a bunch of cables, etc. For me, the obvious solution is the last one tried.)
I texted a couple of my volunteer engineers to tell them I found the issue.
T responded: "I still have the dream of one day having no amplifiers on the stage at all."
ME: "and one day you'll wake up from that dream"
L: "what would Steven Tyler say?"
I love those guys
Is that East LA "eh" or is that Canadian "eh"?
There are very few if any organs in East LA churches.
As far as loud rock music in churches....... bring it on!
Ok...am back in the worship team game after a 6 year absence. Decided to return to the church we left 5 years ago where I was a leader and an integral part of the team. Well, it’s a new world now. They went to IEMs and want me to. The bassist and other electric player still have amps though. We only play 3 songs per service so I don’t think I am bringing one of my tube amps and cab to set up. Small to medium sized church..,say 240 people. If we were playing longer my Mesa TA15 would be PERFECT. Or the tweed Champ with well-chosen pedals. I still might try one of those. But for my first Sunday back I will use a Tech 21 Power Engine Power amp getting hit by a Joyo AC Tone FWIW. I will have a couple Lovepedals too. One OD in front and a verb after the preamp. The Power Engine can line out to the P.A. via xlr.
Volume is always an issue here. I do have to be careful. If the setup I am using sounds good I will upgrade to a used Tech21 Liverpool and ditch the unreliable Joyo POC.
There is a push for IEMs yet there are still wedges and little monitors on stands onstage, so it is a hybrid thing.
I really wanna use the Mesa .....Vox channel for cleans and the Marshall channel for the rockers...but that would mean setting up week by week cause I don’t leave my gear anywhere....stuff has been stolen from this church before. The tweed Champ at 4 watts could be mic’d .... I know they want me to go direct from the pedalboard to PA..,which with competent sound people can sound awesome, but I am a blues player..,,dynamics are everything.....I have to feel and hear my guitar to really play well.
Even in P&W. Will report back Sunday. Will play my Hamer Artist with Firebird pups by Rumpel. I may swap them out for some Rumpeltrons that I have if this gig goes well and they don’t kick me off...lol.
I use a Nux Solid Studio with my pedalboard, when Im not able to use an amp. My Palmer PD-09 runs the right side of my pedalboard. We use IEM's and its cool to hear your effects in stereo.
Whaaaat? Are they long Grateful Dead jams or Phish medleys. Not many blue-hairs in my church are YES fans? I don't think I would even bother to bring anything other than an acoustic for only 3 songs. (sometimes we do 8 or 9 with 2 or 3 medleys).
Our service is generally an hour - with about 20-25 minutes of music or so -- church songs are rather short compared to my FREEBIRD upbringing.
Our blue hairs came up in the 50s through 70s when scared music made that change and pop followed us. They want us to let it rip. Meanwhile the younger generation wants the megachurch mid tempo anthems