MXR Distortion+ (Or Is It???)

[Brent Hutto]

SHORT VERSION

On my Boss Katana amp, I like the built-in "Dist+" effect (emulation of an MXR Distortion+) better than any of the other distortions.

What are the odds that I would dig the sound of the actual MXR pedal?

Is liking the DSP-emulated version sufficient evidence that it's a pedal worth trying?

LONG VERSION

I've recently been dipping my toes into the world of distortion. I got an MXR Timmy pedal and somewhat surprisingly was able to find a couple light breakup tones I kind of like. But turning the Gain up past halfway gets into a kind of distortion that I don't care for.

My amp is a Boss Katana and I've played around a lot with many of its Boost effects which are emulations of anything from a clean boost to SD-1/BD-1 type Boss drive pedals all the way up into fuzz and heavy metal territory. For whatever reason the only one I seem to find interesting is called "Dist+" which is an emulation of the ancient MXR Distortion+ pedal. It doesn't jack the overall gain through the roof like most overdrive/distortion effects and it seems to be right in the Goldilocks zone where it's distorted enough to hear on even single notes (not just chords) but it doesn't degenerate into a wall of crud when I do play a really dissonant or closely-voiced chord.

Googling the MXR pedal tells me it's a very crude, simple "hard clippping" op-amp circuit. About the only thing that seems out of the ordinary (I think?) is the clipping is done by germanium rather than silicone diodes. Or maybe that's not unique at all, it's all above my pay grade to even know what that means. Basically, I don't know if it's an unusual sound at all or if it's just a historical curiosity and modern pedals cover the same tones even better somehow.

 

[dlew919]

Despite what some cork sniffers will tell you, the sounds on these things are very clpse. So I suspect you’d like the MXR

 

[Killing Floor]

Despite what some cork sniffers will tell you, the sounds on these things are very clpse. So I suspect you’d like the MXR

Admitted.
And also the pedal is a classic circuit. It’s not some rate component functioning in a unique way. It’s commonly copied. Something weirdo or even an old germanium circuit that is different in differing environments I’d say it’s hit or miss. But that MXR, Boss has great engineers. I’m sure you’d like the original too.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I think I'll give one a try. Spent an hour or so just now with Katana's emulation and with the Drive set to around 1/3 it's getting pretty close to the version of "distortion" I have in my head when I play a couple tunes I'm working on.

I had some reward points thing that paid off with an Amazon credit so I just ordered a new one from them. On Reverb the used ones seem to start around $70 (shipped) and it'll actually cost me less than that for the new one using those points. Also if it just totally doesn't sound like I'm expecting right out of the box they'll take it back.

I can have a real adventure trying it stacked in front or behind my MXR Timmy. Too much fun!

 

[J. Bonkosky]

The Distortion+ is one of my favorites. Totally worth getting in my opinion. The new ones are as good as the vintage ones. Find a cheap used one and rock out.

 

[Blues Twanger]

The Distortion + is plentiful used so if you buy one second hand and decide it's not for you getting your money back out of it should be easy.

 

[hopdybob]

i had the guyatone OD patch on the GNX2 and liked that a lot.
but hearing it on the tube it seems to be another pedal.
harsh in stead of the smooth sound of the GNX

 

[ahiddentableau]

Absolutely worth a try. The modellers are usually close to the real thing, so if you like it on your Katana you'll probably like the pedal.

Distortion + is a sentimental fav for me. It was the my first pedal build.

 

[11 Gauge]

Googling the MXR pedal tells me it's a very crude, simple "hard clippping" op-amp circuit. About the only thing that seems out of the ordinary (I think?) is the clipping is done by germanium rather than silicone diodes. Or maybe that's not unique at all, it's all above my pay grade to even know what that means. Basically, I don't know if it's an unusual sound at all or if it's just a historical curiosity and modern pedals cover the same tones even better somehow.

IMO, there is nothing magical about germanium diodes vs. silicon ones.

If anything, the clipping with germaniums will typically be 'more intense' than with silicons, because they have lower forward voltages.

The DOD OD 250 is basically like a relative/cousin of the D+, with the big notable difference being that it uses 1N4148 silicon clipping diodes. Many folks who have used both pedals seem to find that they sound similar, overall.

If I had to guess as to what it is you specifically like about the D+ kind of sound, I'd say it has to do with more and more bass being attenuated as you turn the gain up (and vice-versa as you turn the gain down), which helps to prevent it from turning into a 'wall of crud'.

Many/most other ODs and distortions basically have their 'bass shelving' fixed, so that adjusting the gain up or down doesn't change it. A TS or SD-1 is a good example of this, just with many users not experiencing a 'wall of crud' experience at higher gains because so much bass is rolled off.

Actually, the voice control on a Zendrive is basically the same circuit as on the D+ - it affects both gain and the amount of bass that's cut. I've heard of some users who are more liberal in the adjustment of the voice control, and then more conservative in the adjustment of the gain control, to keep things from getting into the 'wall of crud' zone.

 

[Bluego1]

Wanna have some real fun?

 

[Brent Hutto]

Wanna have some real fun?
View attachment 1077142

So that pedal plusses your distortion plus, plus it has other plusses as well.

And you're using it PLUS a distortion plus!

Mind blown

 

[Beebe]

I recall there being a couple of different versions. I think the one I had only worked with a battery and didn't have an LED. Maybe it wasn't the "+" version... Just a heads up.

 

[TheFuzzDog]

I recall there being a couple of different versions. I think the one I had only worked with a battery and didn't have an LED. Maybe it wasn't the "+" version... Just a heads up.

That’s the older version from the 70s and possibly the early 80s. To my knowledge there is no difference in the circuit except the inclusion of a power jack and the LED, but that could be wrong. I have one of each era and they sound quite similar to my ears.

 

[Bluego1]

So that pedal plusses your distortion plus, plus it has other plusses as well.

And you're using it PLUS a distortion plus!

Mind blown

That about sums it up. I'm here all week.

 

[Brent Hutto]

IMO, there is nothing magical about germanium diodes vs. silicon ones.

If anything, the clipping with germaniums will typically be 'more intense' than with silicons, because they have lower forward voltages.

The DOD OD 250 is basically like a relative/cousin of the D+, with the big notable difference being that it uses 1N4148 silicon clipping diodes. Many folks who have used both pedals seem to find that they sound similar, overall.

If I had to guess as to what it is you specifically like about the D+ kind of sound, I'd say it has to do with more and more bass being attenuated as you turn the gain up (and vice-versa as you turn the gain down), which helps to prevent it from turning into a 'wall of crud'.

Many/most other ODs and distortions basically have their 'bass shelving' fixed, so that adjusting the gain up or down doesn't change it. A TS or SD-1 is a good example of this, just with many users not experiencing a 'wall of crud' experience at higher gains because so much bass is rolled off.

Actually, the voice control on a Zendrive is basically the same circuit as on the D+ - it affects both gain and the amount of bass that's cut. I've heard of some users who are more liberal in the adjustment of the voice control, and then more conservative in the adjustment of the gain control, to keep things from getting into the 'wall of crud' zone.

Thank you for that explanation.

And you're talking about the thing I did like about Katana's "DST+" emulation versus some of its other distortion/overdrive effects. If it run it at a middling drive setting and play a little G-minor triad on the top three string it's a bit distorted. Move the same triad down to the 2nd-3rd-4th strings and it's still distorted, same on 3rd-4th-5th strings. All of those in the same ballpark in terms of amount of distortion.

Most types of distortion (including my MXR Timmy pedal) are either thin and fizzy (or not there at all) on the top three strings or they start a "wall of crud" as I move down into the wound strings.

Even the DST+ does get a little darker and less distinct if I go all the way down and grab the low Bb of that triad on the 6th string but not too bad as long as I pick lightly.

In theory Timmy has the bass cut control that should make all that possible but I just can't seem to dial it in. And Timmy just never gets that real authoritative sounding, brash distortion tone that I'm looking for to do my 28th of January licks.

 

[Brent Hutto]

That’s the older version from the 70s and possibly the early 80s. To my knowledge there is no difference in the circuit except the inclusion of a power jack and the LED, but that could be wrong. I have one of each era and they sound quite similar to my ears.

As I await the Amazon truck to bring my brand-new current production distortion+ pedal, I've been reading up on what I can find about different eras. Not really trying to parse out all the details but it sure does seem like the ones rolling out of MXR today still have a) type 741 op-amp and b) germanium diodes.

Exact part specifications? Who knows. Minor circuit differences? Probably so. But to a general extent it sounds like MXR is still pretty much selling D+ pedals, same as it ever was.

P.S. Speaking of 741 op-amps, during my pre-teen and early teen years I would get breadboards and parts from Radioshack and learn about real basic little circuits (nothing as elaborate as guitar pedals). But I do remember the "741" being a high-tech sort of part circa 1971 with "an entire operational amplifier in a single mini-DIP package".

 

[11 Gauge]

In theory Timmy has the bass cut control that should make all that possible but I just can't seem to dial it in. And Timmy just never gets that real authoritative sounding, brash distortion tone that I'm looking for to do my 28th of January licks.

I seem to have the same problem with 4 knob pedals like the Timmy - I can't get them dialed in, either. It's this endless back and forth between the bass knob and gain knob, and I never land on the sweet spot.

I have a similar issue with the Zendrive, just to a lesser degree, probably because the voice control is similar to what you have with the D+ - it just seems like maybe it's a necessary evil to be able to adjust both the bass roll-off and the gain at the same time.

There is one other pedal that you might want to investigate - the Marshall Bluesbreaker (or one of the pedals that copies it). It's an interesting sort of design in that the gain control affects the gain of two op amp stages simultaneously, with the second stage basically being similar to a D+, in that you turn the gain up, and it rolls off more and more bass.

Actually, the Marshall Guv'nor also has the same circuit particulars as the Bluesbreaker, and is potentially capable of more authoritative and brash sounding distortion.

I just have a personal preference for the Bluesbreaker since it sticks to a 3 knob format. I think with a good design that 4 or more knobs isn't really necessary, and I tend to spend an endless amount of time trying to get the thing dialed in.

 

[11 Gauge]

P.S. Speaking of 741 op-amps, during my pre-teen and early teen years I would get breadboards and parts from Radioshack and learn about real basic little circuits (nothing as elaborate as guitar pedals). But I do remember the "741" being a high-tech sort of part circa 1971 with "an entire operational amplifier in a single mini-DIP package".

The truth be told, an op amp like the 741 (which is now low-tech) is perfect for our uses, because it has a lower slew rate than most of the newer op amps available now. A lower slew rate tends to translate to 'less hi-fi', which is what tends to happen with guitar amps and such.

It's a similar thing happening with the LM308N op amp in a Rat, which has an even lower slew rate than the 741!

IMO, if you put something with a high slew rate in a D+, like a NE5534, a lot of the good sound qualities go away. We actually want the bandwidth reduced, especially as you get up higher than 3Khz or so.

 

[Brent Hutto]

My Amazon package arrived, prompting the comment from my wife, "Guess you can never have too many pedals..." to which I replied, "...or too much distortion".

With the HUGE caveat that neither my playing, my ears or my knowledge are sufficient to discern small differences my conclusion is the Katana's emulation of what they call DST+ was a fair take on the sound of the pedal. I won't say it sounds identical but it might as well be identical for my purposes.

Second conclusion is, as you move the two knobs around the sound goes all over the place. It's pretty wild (by comparison the Katana DST+ effect was pretty predictable in how the settings worked). Very interactive between the two pedal knobs and whether I'm playing loud or soft, that kind of thing.

But in just a half-hour I've already found one setting I really dig with the neck pickup of my Tele. Sort of "snake eyes" setting with the left knob at 3:00 and right knob at 9:00. Sounds wonderful up on the frets 10-15 on the top three strings and also gets a pretty solid grind going when playing in lower registers.

 

[cousinpaul]

A few years back, I took one of the current version apart and compared it to my vintage D+. Aside from the status LED and the power supply jack, the only difference I could find was the new one used film caps, in place of the vintage pedal's ceramics. I think the difference some hear might have to do with using a power supply instead of a battery. Anyway, it might be something to experiment with. Also, as the D+ has no tone control, using the guitar's tone control can be a must. My settings are distortion around noon and output loud enough to ride the guitar's volume.