Musicians with a jazz background are the most courageous and exciting

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Thin white duke, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. kafka

    kafka Tele-Afflicted

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    A parrot can learn to talk, but it's only fun it it knows obscenities. In the same sense, one can learn to play certain notes over chord progressions, but it's only fun if you learn how to play the other notes.


    But maybe not really. I was just trying to see if I could make that parrot analogy work.
     
  2. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    While respecting the technical abilities and musicianship of jazz musicians, I have come to realize that I completely hate listening to it. I don't listen to music to take in the technical abilities of musicians; I listen to songs, which done well, create a whole tiny little world in their lyrics and music. The soloing is supposed to be a spice that enhances the stew, not the whole reason to come out and listen.

    Please don't bother to tell me I don't get it - I definitely don't get it!
     
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  3. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    When someone is improvising, my desire is for them to communicate something personal, if not original. The good old licks don't often fit into someone's personal story, but it is possible, particularly if the story of the moment makes something original out of the way they are presented. Presentation is important.
     
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  4. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    simple major blues



    sometimes simple backgrounds are great for taking risks on top
     
  5. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Tele-Afflicted

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    I see analogies between musical "taste" and food, e.g. the chili cookoff is kinda like a jazz festival. One person puts bananas in their chili and everyone freaks out. Next year they're all doing it.
     
  6. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Interesting post, but what about conservatory trained jazz musicians? What about lounge musicians? What about cheesy smooth jazz?
     
  7. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Brave combo did more with polka than most jazz bands (coughs *Snarky Puppy*) do with jazz. All about what is being communicated. Too many jazz players come off as “every story I tell musically is about how good I am,... musically”. This to me includes some of the greats . I saw Miles Davis in 90’ and he bored me to tears. It was ALL about him and how bored to tears he was of us.
    A local jazz band named Kwinton Gray caved my head in with how much fun they were having just to be doing what they loved. They were opening for Mark Lettieri, so, they probably made peanuts that night. Renewed my faith in fusion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  8. Thin white duke

    Thin white duke Tele-Afflicted

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    ----What about cheesy smooth jazz?---
    -----What about lounge musicians?----
    I'm not into that really but usually they are good musicians in their own instrument.

    In the late '90's early 2000 i use to listen to some acid jazz, Jamiroquai mostly and some Incognito but i got bored soon especially of Incognito, the first two Jamriquai albums are very good even now...
    If that is what you mean by lounge musicians or smooth jazz, if you mean Kenny G. i never liked that style...
     
  9. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Of course I meant stuff like Kenny G., but even more cheesy. Think hotel lounges and cruise ships.
     
  10. Thin white duke

    Thin white duke Tele-Afflicted

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    Not really, did you like it ?
     
  11. Mike SS

    Mike SS Poster Extraordinaire

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    When I have spare money in my budget, I am more likely to spend it on vintage jazz LP's, all styles. My favorite times of day for music are 1:00 pm and 8:00 pm, because there's jazz music on National Public Radio for a couple of hours. All kinds of jazz. Nebraska is NOT a jazz music state, so I have to work to hear jazz. My least favorite is "smooth jazz", which is the jazz muzak for the masses. Stylized pop tunes that folks can hum along to in the elevator.

    Jazz is the music of musicians, and most of the true greats don't care if anyone "gets it". Hear it, dig it, or not. Some of them knuckle under to make some money, like the late, great guitarist Wes Montgomery. A fabulous guitarist, and if you avoid his "pop music treatments" there is great music. Even he knew this, and used to tell people "You should have heard me when I really played".

    There are, and were great players/artists in all genre's of music, who played for themselves, and if you got it fine. Even punk rock, and grunge music, in it's musical simplicity produced memorable tunes because players were not afraid to do what they wanted.
     
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  12. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    No.
     
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  13. nvilletele

    nvilletele Friend of Leo's

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    Shades of Django and Grapelli. Wonderful.
     
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  14. TheMindful

    TheMindful Tele-Meister

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    I believe we resemble a version of what the OP described. I put this project together to do exactly that. Meld Rock and Jazz in various ways (as well as funk, Americana at times). You won't hear any Bebop, but each song features improvisation in context of lyrics and songwriting.
     
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  15. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    Sigh.

    Jazz is committed to improvisation as the key thing or the main point. Within that, there are adventurous improvisation and less adventurous improvisations. Most of the time, the fundamental tension is between the familiar (the changes to "Love for Sale")and the novel (wow I never expected that would work against those changes). Some people, again, are more adventurous than others. But improvisation is the key piece.

    Jazz typically has a behind the beat feel. That's really hard for a lot of rockers to grasp, especially metal guys. It's a typical but not universal genre thing. Lots of african american-inflected music has a behind the beat feel.

    Running the changes to Love for Sale yet again remains more interesting to me than yet another pentatonic blues, or some guy who is trying to disguise a simple three major chord song by stomping on a bunch of pedals.

    All musical genres can be wonderful, if you stop expecting them to be something else
     
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  16. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    drummers with big band backgrounds can do anything and do it well in my experience
     
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  17. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Meister

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    The older I get the more I respect and admire the sophistication of jazz, and jazz musicians are for sure at the top of the pyramid when it comes to understanding and applying music theory. That said, I really don't enjoy listening to most jazz. So much of it just sounds like solo wankery without any real heart or soul. For every Coltrane, Davis, or Jimmy Smith there's a hundred generic jazz musos trying to impress with sheer speed and technique. And for all of the harmonic sophistication, most jazz arrangements are somewhat boring to me -- introduce melodic theme, sax solo on theme, piano solo on theme, bass solo on theme, drum solo, return to theme, end.

    I'm sure there's a ton of jazz that I might like but just haven't been introduced to so maybe someone can help me out here. Again, it's not jazz it's me!
     
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  18. Thin white duke

    Thin white duke Tele-Afflicted

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    ----For every Coltrane, Davis, or Jimmy Smith there's a hundred generic jazz musos trying to impress with sheer speed and technique.----
    This is damn true man....
    I suggest you from the old school two giants, Monk and Mingus but probably you know them already....
     
  19. 2 Headed Goat

    2 Headed Goat Tele-Afflicted

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    Jeff Beck - "You have to be prepared to look the chump."
    "There is no sense restricting yourself in music. It's supposed to be there to give you freedom."
     
  20. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    so true

    a song is over in a few minutes, and a solo window even less

    to create something really moving, on the fly, is a small miracle of social creativity which can never be repeated

    good improvised music is like a sunbeam and just as temporary
     
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