Musical Instruments to be Exempt From CITES

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ojaverde, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. ojaverde

    ojaverde Tele-Holic

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    "An international endangered species convention meeting in Geneva is close to exempting musical instruments from trade restrictions on rosewood.

    The restrictions under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora — commonly referred to as CITES — went into effect in 2017, after strong demand for high-end rosewood furniture in China led to conservation worries and violence in areas that produce the wood."

    https://www.npr.org/2019/08/27/7545...om-restrictions-on-heavily-trafficked-rosewoo
     

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  2. Bluetelecaster

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  5. LutherBurger

    LutherBurger Poster Extraordinaire

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  6. Bill

    Bill Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    About time. It was an awful waiting game when I shipped my old Fenders and Martins and Gibsons with me from the US to the U.K.

    The only time I had a problem with customs was bringing my cat back to the US. And yes I had all the correct paperwork. Thank goodness he wasn’t wearing an ivory and rosewood collar!
     
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  7. rze99

    rze99 Doctor of Teleocity

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  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That's nice and all, I do like rosewood in some guitars.
    But it looks like a good deal of lies were told for the purpose of getting our way.

    This is particularly funny given that since the restriction we have been debating the musical merits of rosewood in guitars, and there has been far more evidence showing that rosewood contributes virtually nothing to music that builders cannot produce for musicians with other woods.
    What we know at the higher levels of builder and musician is that great guitars sound indistinguishably just as great when made with alternative woods the luthier chooses for the target tones.

    Yet in lobbying for removal of the restrictions, here are the central statements about the critical need for rosewood in musical instrument manufacturing.

    "Rosewood is prized as a tonewood, RESPONSIBLE for a characteristic resonant tone in everything from guitars to cellos and clarinets".

    Further, manufacturers and musicians pushed for the exemptions, writing in a convention brief that without it:

    "The world of music and culture will lose certain instruments that produce the highest quality tones".

    Those two statements are outright lies!

    Not only do we know from several years of luthiers showing us that we as players cannot tell a Brazilian rosewood back & sides guitar from another type of rosewood back & sides guitar, and even cannot tell what we think is the best rosewood back & sides from guitars with no rainforest woods at all; but the big guitar makers have been trying to convince us that they can make great sounding acoustics indistinguishable from RW back & sides all day long with no loss of tone or cost issues.

    Luthiers have been laughing at guitar players for decades about our inability to hear without using our eyes.

    Further lies in the statement involve the need for rosewood in order to produce those "characteristic resonant tones" in cellos and clarinets. Rosewood used in cellos is entirely decorative, primarily as tailpiece and tuners, while clarinets are seldom made of rosewood, and it is generally in older cheaper clarinets. While we guitar players debated RW in acoustics, clarinet and piccolo players debated the tonal merits of GRENADILLA, which looks similar to rosewood but is not rosewood. I haven't followed that debate in a while but it was well known that top shelf solid hard rubber clarinets and piccolos were tonally indistinguishable from grenadilla in blind comparisons.
    As for rosewood in clarinets, it is universally known to be inferior there and must be lined with hard rubber or it cracks.
    The lies were presumably told with the assumption that no musicians were on regulatory commissions, and if they were, they would keep their collective mouths shut.

    And now primarily the industry has sold the regulators the same lies they sold us for a century, then took back when it started hurting their bottom line.
    The industry agreed that rosewood was not an essential tonewood when their profits WITHOUT IT were in trouble.

    We even debated the issue right here and on other forums and largely agree that we don't need rosewood for great tone, and find that virtually no musician can even identify rosewood tone, never mind the prized and near extinct Brazilian roesewood tone in blind tests.

    ......
    One statement in the lobby was however true, and should have been enough to prevent the seizure of instruments carried by musicians, as opposed to shipments of lumber.

    "Traveling orchestras feared their instruments would be seized at international borders".

    This is true, but the solution didn't require thousands of board feet a year of rainforest woods be shipped to factories for making Squier Strats.
     
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  10. ojaverde

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    I was more interested in the impact on being able to travel with , or sell older instruments made with rosewood without permits.
     
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  11. MDent77

    MDent77 Tele-Afflicted

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    Excellent.
     
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  13. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Poster Extraordinaire

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    I hope that means we can get back to rosewood boards without destroying the supply.
     
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  19. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    It really never mattered to me. I don't own a single instrument with any wood regulated by CITES. They either never had them, or were retrofitted with look-a-likes. Really ;)
     
  20. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    But is pao ferro here to stay on MiMs?
     
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