Music/speaking ratio

[TelePickler]

How does your church balance the time allotted to music and speaking (sermon + announcements/greeting etc), and how is that music time distributed throughout the service? I'm considering broaching the subject with my worship pastor, because I feel that we may be due to re-evaluate our service structure. We do 2 songs, then pause for an average of 7 minutes of announcements, then one song during the offering, then another song after the ~50 minute sermon (including prayer/altar time).

I grew up in a very music-focused church. We averaged 7 songs, and always had at least 3 strung together with no break. There were some very powerful services, and occasionally the pastor would make the call to cancel the sermon in the moment and just continue worship.

That just doesn't happen at my current church, and I miss it. It's a bummer to have to break the flow after 2 songs. I know one of the reasons for the music crunch is having two services back to back Sunday AM. A 7 song setlist is out of the picture, but I feel like we could go to 5 total and get a chain of 3 before having to break.

 

[Danjabellza]

We do 2-3 songs to start the service and then break for announcements and the sermon, then play 3-4 songs at the end. total service time is roughly 1hr15min with 25-30ish min of that being musical worship time.

 

[Danjabellza]

If you do approach leadership about it, maybe talk about the intent and impact of a different flow of service. For example, our church just recently switched to the format I described. And it was for a specific reason. The worship at the beginning is intended to help facilitate a spiritual mindset and openness to the word. Then the portion at the end of service is intended to help facilitate the congregation’s processing and response to the message. If the music is spread out as much as you describe, what is the intent of that? How does that positively/negatively impact the congregation’s spiritual experience at church?

 

[TelePickler]

If you do approach leadership about it, maybe talk about the intent and impact of a different flow of service. For example, our church just recently switched to the format I described. And it was for a specific reason. The worship at the beginning is intended to help facilitate a spiritual mindset and openness to the word. Then the portion at the end of service is intended to help facilitate the congregation’s processing and response to the message. If the music is spread out as much as you describe, what is the intent of that? How does that positively/negatively impact the congregation’s spiritual experience at church?

Agreed, I definitely want to approach this with more finesse than "hey boss, let's do more music!" The conversation would have to be delicate, because it's surely going to mean moving time away from the various speakers, likely announcements. We've streamed since 2020 and going back to those early services, announcements have grown from 4-5 minutes to 7-8 (yesterday they were 13 minutes!). We don't do paper bulletins (first church I've been in that didn't), maybe that is part of the solution...condense the info given by the speaker and use the bulletins for details.

 

[Chester P Squier]

Our church typically does 5 hymns. The announcements come after the first one. After the next 4 hymns is the sermon, followed by the invitation hymn, which is almost always a repetition of one of the 5 hymns sung before the sermon.

After resuming in-person worship following the event of March 2020, we stopped passing the plate for the offering. Prior to that, there would be special music such as a choir number during the offering. Years ago, the special music followed the offering, the music during the offering being the "offertory."

 

[sax4blues]

Every church I've been with has juggled time allotted for each of the elements, with each part believing this one is being cut too short. Good luck.

 

[IowaTeleGuy]

We do 1 song followed by announcements then 3 more songs before sermon then we play the congregation out with an instrumental version of the last song we played before the sermon. Most people want to get straight to the fellowship hall to chat after the sermon. Our schedule for at least the next month shows us playing 3 songs in total instead of 4 to reduce the length of service time. This is a farming community so I guess we are trying to give them some time back. The pastor has also reduced his sermon time from about 45 minutes to maximum 30 minutes.

 

[hotraman]

Usually four songs up front, before the message. About 25 minutes or so.
One closing song after the message, for an altar call / ministry prayer time. Our services are about an hour and 15 minutes.

 

[Ascension]

How does your church balance the time allotted to music and speaking (sermon + announcements/greeting etc), and how is that music time distributed throughout the service? I'm considering broaching the subject with my worship pastor, because I feel that we may be due to re-evaluate our service structure. We do 2 songs, then pause for an average of 7 minutes of announcements, then one song during the offering, then another song after the ~50 minute sermon (including prayer/altar time).

I grew up in a very music-focused church. We averaged 7 songs, and always had at least 3 strung together with no break. There were some very powerful services, and occasionally the pastor would make the call to cancel the sermon in the moment and just continue worship.

That just doesn't happen at my current church, and I miss it. It's a bummer to have to break the flow after 2 songs. I know one of the reasons for the music crunch is having two services back to back Sunday AM. A 7 song setlist is out of the picture, but I feel like we could go to 5 total and get a chain of 3 before having to break.

Your background is very similar to mine so I understand your frustration well. The ratio will totally depend on the particular Church. Example would be when I was playing guitar at a Mega Church here in Birmingham for a few years. Sunday morning was pretty structured with a worship set then the message and altar call. Sunday night was a very fluid and free worship setting where at times it would turn into a purely worship service. We normally ran about 3500 or so in a typical service. Miss that place badly.
I have also been in other places where it was very open and free on the worship side and at times the Pastor would grab the mic and take the worship in a direction himself.
Like here

If I'm going to be part of a team and Church it can't be so controlled it doesn't leave room for the flow of the spirit on ether side. If it kicks off and really gets into the flow in Worship go with it but when it doesn't the team also needs to be willing to set down and let the message come. The little Church I'm in now had been like that before we got shut down by a bad COVID outbreak. Since not so much and the Pastor and I are talking and both want to see that come back. We have lost a lot of folks so it's going to be a process to get it all back.
I won't stay in a place that is very controlled and programed where everything is on a tight preplanned scedule and there is never any room to step into the spirit in Worship at times. That's not church to me it's a social club!

 

[ravindave_3600]

When I was lead pastor we would usually play 2, have some sort of break (scripture, announcements, baptism, whatever), then a couple more songs, sermon, and one or two at the end. Usually 6-7.

Now that I'm WL I defer to the pastor but he's been reasonably willing to listen to my ideas/teaching. A typical service goes
band intro - instrumental
scripture reading
*song
greetings/announcements (which used to run 7 minutes but I've nagged them down to 3 min)
*2 (sometimes 3) songs
sermon
*song
Benediction
band outro - repeat of the rowdiest song or something different that's appropriate to the mood

I think it helps to have a well-developed theology of worship and a well-reasoned plan. Both answer "Why do I want to do this song in this space?" More music isn't good; less music isn't good; the right music is good. And if musicians come to a common understanding with the pastor it can be a really great partnership.

 

[Ascension]

I think it helps to have a well-developed theology of worship and a well-reasoned plan. Both answer "Why do I want to do this song in this space?" More music isn't good; less music isn't good; the right music is good. And if musicians come to a common understanding with the pastor it can be a really great partnership.

Strongly agree with this to an extent. Every Church should have a unique voice in it's worship and having the Pastor and worship leader on the same page is critical. There are no hard and fast rules as every Church is different. I have some specific things I need to see if I am going to work in a worship team but that's for me personally. When things are really as they should be the material in the days worship set should complement what the Pastors message will be. Ideally this should just happen naturally in the Spirit without the Pastor and worship leader even talking about the set and pre planning everything. At least it has very regularly in the Churches I have served in. On occasion the Pastor may request a specific song but for the most part it just all flows naturally. Also both sides will change what they have planned if the Spirit leads. Have a set planned but it's just not really resonating the Worship leader and team be willing to step out early and let the message come. On the other hand if during worship things start flowing the Pastor goes with the flow and lets it happen even if the moment lends stepping aside with the message and allowing worship to go where it needs to. This only happens where there is relationship and trust between the Pastor worship leader and worship team.
I don't do normal super preprogrammed Church and never have. And this was even at the 6000 member plus Mega Church I played in for many years. We ran 3500 or so in the room on a normal Sunday Morning Service. Sunday Morning was very heavily message driven but Sunday Night was where you never knew what to expect. REALLY miss that place as it came apart and shut down in 2013.
From a Sunday Night Service there

Free For All by Cathedrial Of The Cross

Free For All - Live worship from 4-30-06

soundclick.com

Give Up A Praise by Cathedrial Of The Cross

The best independent music community on the net. Listen to music, buy and sell beats and albums.

soundclick.com

The Annointing by Cathedrial Of The Cross

The Annointing - Kent Henry live with the Cathedral Band backing July 2

soundclick.com

 

[Chester P Squier]

When I was lead pastor we would usually play 2, have some sort of break (scripture, announcements, baptism, whatever), then a couple more songs, sermon, and one or two at the end. Usually 6-7.

Now that I'm WL I defer to the pastor but he's been reasonably willing to listen to my ideas/teaching. A typical service goes
band intro - instrumental
scripture reading
*song
greetings/announcements (which used to run 7 minutes but I've nagged them down to 3 min)
*2 (sometimes 3) songs
sermon
*song
Benediction
band outro - repeat of the rowdiest song or something different that's appropriate to the mood

I think it helps to have a well-developed theology of worship and a well-reasoned plan. Both answer "Why do I want to do this song in this space?" More music isn't good; less music isn't good; the right music is good. And if musicians come to a common understanding with the pastor it can be a really great partnership.

In your church, does the person doing the greetings/announcements seat the congregation (assuming they stood for the first hymn)? We used to have an associate pastor who would have us standing the whole time. Presently, the senior pastor comes out, prays, then sits the congregation and does the announcements.

 

[ravindave_3600]

In your church, does the person doing the greetings/announcements seat the congregation (assuming they stood for the first hymn)? We used to have an associate pastor who would have us standing the whole time. Presently, the senior pastor comes out, prays, then sits the congregation and does the announcements.

We're trying some different things.

Usually I go straight from the first song into greetings - "Turn to someone near you, introduce yourself and tell them (God is good / you're a friend of God / you've seen the light / our God is awesome / whatever we just sang about). The band plays while people talk and shake hands, about 2 minutes. Either I or the announcements person seats them. Here's where it gets different:

For years we had one woman do the announcements (and we had LOTS of announcements) and she was convinced everything had to be comic and fun. Going for laughs was very distracting (we could have just sang "At the Cross" and she'd be cracking jokes) so the pastor has taken to putting them on video, timed down to about 2 or 3 minutes. Production values are low but he's working to make them better. I'm urging him to get other people involved, the leaders of the relevant ministries, but so far he's reluctant. That may be because it's already plenty or work and he doesn't want to take on the stress of guiding an "announcement team" (and I can't blame him) but I really think it would be better. Another thing we've discussed is having two people lead, throwing the announcements back and forth between them and keeping each other on track. Any suggestions?

 

[Chester P Squier]

We're trying some different things.

Usually I go straight from the first song into greetings - "Turn to someone near you, introduce yourself and tell them (God is good / you're a friend of God / you've seen the light / our God is awesome / whatever we just sang about). The band plays while people talk and shake hands, about 2 minutes. Either I or the announcements person seats them. Here's where it gets different:

For years we had one woman do the announcements (and we had LOTS of announcements) and she was convinced everything had to be comic and fun. Going for laughs was very distracting (we could have just sang "At the Cross" and she'd be cracking jokes) so the pastor has taken to putting them on video, timed down to about 2 or 3 minutes. Production values are low but he's working to make them better. I'm urging him to get other people involved, the leaders of the relevant ministries, but so far he's reluctant. That may be because it's already plenty or work and he doesn't want to take on the stress of guiding an "announcement team" (and I can't blame him) but I really think it would be better. Another thing we've discussed is having two people lead, throwing the announcements back and forth between them and keeping each other on track. Any suggestions?

I don't really have any suggestions, but at our church, the organist plays for 10-15 minutes before the service, then there is a video on the two large screens with announcements as the orchestra moves to the stage and the organist moves to piano. Then the orchestra plays a prelude, and the praise team enter the stage and a curtain rolls back so that the congregation sees the choir behind the orchestra. One song, and the senior pastor comes up and prays and seats us and makes a few brief announcements. Then the congregation stands again to sing the rest of the hymns and praise songs. WE do have relatively elaborate production values.

We haven't passed the plate for the offering since 2020, but the gifts keep coming in, thankfully. We also haven't been turning to greet each other, either, for the same reason.

But it's been nearly 30 years since we ended the service with "Reach across the aisle, grab someone's hand, and sing 'We Are One in the Bond of Love.'" Flu epidemic of the early 90s. I guess we're germaphobes.

 

[Chester P Squier]

Maybe this is slightly off-topic but here is a realistic order of service as reported by The Babylon Bee:
From the Babylon Bee

In case you don't want to click on the link, here is what it says, copied and pasted:

"If you've been to church lately, you have probably noticed that the so-called "order of worship" really serves as more of a vague set of suggestions. Here, we present to you a more realistic order of worship, in all its glory:

• 9:00 - Church service begins
• 9:07 - Church service actually begins
• 9:08 - Junior pastor repeats everything that was already written in the bulletin
• 9:10 - Greet your neighbor!
• 9:12 - Expertly-timed arrival of introverts
• 9:13 - Opening song "Good, Good Father"
• 9:33 - "Good, Good Father" mercifully comes to a close
• 9:34 - Hendersons finally show up
• 9:35 - Worship leader announces next song is an original
• 9:40 - Congregation removes earplugs
• 9:40 - Pastor leads prayer while praise band disappears into the ether
• 9:41 - Pastor begins weekly brawl with lapel mic
• 9:43 - Untangled from lapel mic, Pastor nails opening joke
• 9:44 - Mrs. Allen begins unwrapping hard candy
• 9:45 - Sound guy finally remembers to flip the slide from "Good, Good Father"
• 9:46 - Lapel mic crashes. Sound guy awkwardly speed walks to front with hand-held mic, sermon resumes
• 9:50 - Mrs. Allen finishes unwrapping hard candy
• 9:55 - Sermon wraps up with closing prayer, praise band rematerializes from the ether
• 9:56 - Offering baskets passed to collect money from any Dave Ramsey disciples who still carry cash
• 9:59 - Helicopter moms leave to retrieve kids from nursery
• 10:00 - Closing song begins. Sound guy realizes backup singer never had her mic turned on. Decides it was for the best
• 10:05 - Introverts take to flight
• 10:06 - Service ends!

Now go take our handy order of worship to church, and see if it isn't more accurate than your bulletin!"

Our church doesn't use bulletins with orders of service any more. Just sermon notes with blanks to fill in and pastor's comments on the other side.

 

[ravindave_3600]

Maybe this is slightly off-topic but here is a realistic order of service as reported by The Babylon Bee:
From the Babylon Bee

In case you don't want to click on the link, here is what it says, copied and pasted:

"If you've been to church lately, you have probably noticed that the so-called "order of worship" really serves as more of a vague set of suggestions. Here, we present to you a more realistic order of worship, in all its glory:

• 9:00 - Church service begins
• 9:07 - Church service actually begins
• 9:08 - Junior pastor repeats everything that was already written in the bulletin
• 9:10 - Greet your neighbor!
• 9:12 - Expertly-timed arrival of introverts
• 9:13 - Opening song "Good, Good Father"
• 9:33 - "Good, Good Father" mercifully comes to a close
• 9:34 - Hendersons finally show up
• 9:35 - Worship leader announces next song is an original
• 9:40 - Congregation removes earplugs
• 9:40 - Pastor leads prayer while praise band disappears into the ether
• 9:41 - Pastor begins weekly brawl with lapel mic
• 9:43 - Untangled from lapel mic, Pastor nails opening joke
• 9:44 - Mrs. Allen begins unwrapping hard candy
• 9:45 - Sound guy finally remembers to flip the slide from "Good, Good Father"
• 9:46 - Lapel mic crashes. Sound guy awkwardly speed walks to front with hand-held mic, sermon resumes
• 9:50 - Mrs. Allen finishes unwrapping hard candy
• 9:55 - Sermon wraps up with closing prayer, praise band rematerializes from the ether
• 9:56 - Offering baskets passed to collect money from any Dave Ramsey disciples who still carry cash
• 9:59 - Helicopter moms leave to retrieve kids from nursery
• 10:00 - Closing song begins. Sound guy realizes backup singer never had her mic turned on. Decides it was for the best
• 10:05 - Introverts take to flight
• 10:06 - Service ends!

Now go take our handy order of worship to church, and see if it isn't more accurate than your bulletin!"

Our church doesn't use bulletins with orders of service any more. Just sermon notes with blanks to fill in and pastor's comments on the other side.

Maybe off-topic but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth posting!

 

[studio]

Our church has been known as the singing denomination.

In 2023 we are starting to go back to the entire service
being sung from the current hymnal books we just acquired.

So, apart from the readings and the sermon, that would make up
around 75%!

 

[oyobass]

We just went from 4 songs down to 3. I don't like it all that much, but we do get to stretch out the remaining songs a bit more, instead of playing a cut down "radio version."