1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Multi scale thoughts

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by gangreen, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    My wife was at a music store in the city and knowing my appreciation of a handmade guitar took a picture of this fine example. Sorry but I can't give credit to the maker. Don't know who that was. But the image of the wonky fret board has stuck with me.

    image-4220636157.jpg

    So I eyeballed and sketched and came up with this. Center scale is 25.5", treble E is 24 5/8" and bass E is 26 3/8". Center of the "fan" is the 5th fret. Radius of the arc at the 5th is 29". I'm sure my junior high geometry teacher would have a field day explaining the outcome of my doodling invoking Pythagoras, etc.

    image-357054226.jpg

    Thoughts or suggestions from any one who has contemplated or tried this?
     
  2. Moldy Oldy

    Moldy Oldy Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    341
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Location:
    Mission Viejo, CA
    I'm trying to finish up this bass.

    [​IMG]

    I found this calculator to be very handy.

    http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

    I spent a long time trying to puzzle out how to cut the fret slots. This is what I came up with. I glued a drawing of the fretboard to a piece of MDF and carefully extended the fret lines. Then I clamped the neck to it. I cut each slot by lining up the edge of my guide to the lines. Here are a couple pics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. KWhatley

    KWhatley Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    869
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ahh you've entered the world I've been toying with for the last year in my spare time.

    The purpose other than looking cool of fanned frets is to give a more even tension across all strings, provide better harmonics and thus a richer sound, all with the added bonus that it doesn't take much getting used to before it is more comfortable to play so some say.

    Its dependent on string gauge calculations over length to produce the balance of harmonics across all strings to optimize your chosen scale lengths but you could get away with out working that out. It would just produce more floppy strings than you may want or to tight that snap often until you find a gauge that work for you. They also tend to use custom gauges so off the shelf pack of strings wont work out for you, maybe 2 or 3 and mix and match the gauges.

    The link Moldy posted is really good. The basic principle is work out your each of your E'strings length, set yourself a perpendicular fret (5 or 7th are common) and plot your fret positions on each string, then join with a line to gain the other strings fret positions.

    I could ramble on a bit but I've just woke up so I'll post back here a bit later.

    If you see this before then check out http://www.novaxguitars.com/
    Theres a tech artical in the links somewhere to thats really useful for understanding this stuff. Ahh found it http://www.novaxguitars.com/info/concept.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  4. KWhatley

    KWhatley Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    869
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Location:
    London, UK
    If you think thats cool look at true temperament fretting, there squiggles!
     
  5. ChAoZ

    ChAoZ Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    104
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Location:
    Ashhurst ,NZ
    I'm making this fanned fret 8 string :twisted:,25.5" - 27" scale ,I just used the fret2find program and had a local stationary supplier print it out full size to avoid the inaccuracies of joining multiple pieces ,glued it on the fretboard and used a maple scrap to cut on the lines square
     

    Attached Files:

  6. KWhatley

    KWhatley Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    869
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Location:
    London, UK
    Bit more awake now so here's some things for you to consider if you go ahead with this aside from what I've already mentioned.

    Bridges for fanned frets are expensive and few people make them. You can use a prefabbed bridge, Khaller make one off the top of my head (i think thats how its spelt), Or ABM and one or 2 others do individual saddles that you can use. The advantage of individual saddles is you are completely free to use whatever scales you want as they are mounted individually ofc. You may be limited with the prefabbed ones, not sure. Another option is to make your own bridge plate and use something like the wilkinson graphite saddles due to the way they mount.

    Nut is not straight but cut at an angle as is a scarf joint, other wise you end up with an odd looking end to the fretboard at the nut end. Headstock's also tend to be slightly twisted to allow more break angle on the thinner strings.

    Pups..unless you go custom made you will be limited to single coils since the poles on a hummer wont line up right once you slant them if you go for that option.

    Look forwards to building a load more jigs :)

    I can't explain the why's n whatnots and reasons for all of the above but its what my research into it so far has provided me and my heads a bit foggy about most of it. But then it is most days ;)

    Hope it helps.
     
  7. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    Thanks for the info. Went to fretfind2d and made a plan to play with. See if I can design a guitar around it. And I looked at the Novax site. That officially qualifies as waxing eloquent on the subject.

    And BTW: nice builds and pics. Stunning what you people come up with!
     
  8. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    38
    Posts:
    2,135
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I have built a couple and I prefer the perpendicular to be more around 7-8, as a 5 would mean that the higher frets will have more slant and your bridge offsets will be more pronounced. Then again, I am sure that it will work fine, I just prefer what I prefer, I suppose. I've got two or three more that I intend to do at some point, but I have too many going on right now to do another.
     
  9. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,640
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Location:
    North of Boston
    I just saw this what feels like the other day. Truly mind blowing for a novice builder like me, but at the same time what I've learned in the last 2.5 years tells me it make sperfect sense, as does the fanned frets.

    My own guitar skills don't quailify for such masterful apporaches to multi scale and true temperment type builds but I know a few people I wouldn't mind attempting this for. I look forward to ALL of your threads folks, and thanks for the info!
     
  10. vuduchild

    vuduchild TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    68
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    That's a different animal. Beautiful too - the wood is stunning.

    Reminds me of a lot of the new fangled headless guitars - accept it has a head? Are the tuners down on the body? I'm guessing that is a headless tremolo - but not sure I've seen that particular species yet. That bridge is certainly different.

    I have not been able to really figure out frets on a regular guitar - and thinking of building one like that just gives me a head ache. :p Let alone squiggled frets - I imagine that is not easy. I wonder how much 'really better' the intonation/playing/tuning that procedure delivers and if it is worth it.
     
  11. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    I suspect it's like everything else in life - you can take it the detail and technology to the nth degree. Given that 99.999999999% of the current music played and heard is created with standard straight frets (and I haven't EVH, Vai, Satriani, Gibbons, etc switching to squiggly frets) they must work ok and be readily available and easy to make/use. Guitars for the masses!! That might be my new motto.
     
  12. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    image-588895013.jpg

    Read. Watch video. Think. Repeat. Here goes. Going to try a multi scale mahogany wolf, neck through, chambered body. Here's the rosewood fretboard and the fret plan printed to scale. 25.5" down the center. Off the top of my head I can't remember what the Es scales are. 24 5/8" and 26 3/8"? With a parallel fret at 7. Purely from the hip here. Gotta start somewhere though. Con algo hay que empezar. Mit etwas muß man anfangen.

    image-2991814696.jpg

    My usual fret slot guide won't work with the shifting fretboard. So I made this. Has a 1.5" MDF base (canibalized from the drum sander experiment) and 46mm hickory blocks. My fret saw has a 43mm blade so this will leave ~3mm wood under the slots.

    image-201595623.jpg

    Holes in the base for clamping.

    image-4040000299.jpg

    In theory this is how it will work.
     
  13. KWhatley

    KWhatley Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    869
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Location:
    London, UK
    If that doesn't work out for you try this http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2094. I've made one but yet to test it myself as I'd like to tweak the design a bit for more stability.

    I'll be starting a fan fretted acoustic once my current builds are complete so I have an idea where your going with this. Good luck mate.
     
  14. kissTheApex

    kissTheApex Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,036
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Location:
    Silver Spring, MD
    Deegatron had a very classy low cost solution to the fan-fret humbucker conundrum during the last challenge.
     
  15. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    That is a slick jig. Sometimes I think the things we make to make things are cooler than the things we end up making. I read Deegatron's thread A while back. Didn't he make a new hb base and reattach the single coils slightly askew?
     
  16. mojoatomic

    mojoatomic Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    729
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    I do mine a little differently - I made this jig. Basically, it uses a stewmac fret saw blade on the table saw, and the holes line up with pins spaced exactly 1/2" off the blade that are sticking out of a table saw sled. Sorry for the crappy pic... Just cut this one tonight - 25.5 on the bass and 23.5 on the treble, 7th fret parallel.

    The jig idea will work with a regular fret saw (hand pull) as well. Works for
    straight frets too.

    I lasercut this, but you could do it on a drill press if you printed out a template and center punched your holes.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  17. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    38
    Posts:
    2,135
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Man, you guys make me look like a caveman. I clamp the board to a long narrow board that sticks off my bench. I use a straight piece of aluminum as the fence, held in place with two spring clamps, then use my fingers to keep the blade tight to aluminum fence, and saw very carefully. It's worked well up to this point, if a little low tech, but I can knock out a good multiscale board in just a few more minutes than a regular one. I just finished my multiscale strat last night. Intonation was dead on for all but the low E right out of the gate. Talk about luck!
     
  18. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    All good ways to skin a cat. That's the beauty of it. Pitfalls I might avoid?
     
  19. gangreen

    gangreen Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Location:
    Montrose, Colorado
    image-3702716334.jpg

    Here it is in action. Worked well. Wouldn't change anything at this point.

    image-1009341885.jpg

    Used 3M spray adhesive to attach the template. Peeled off the excess and I'll use this as guide for trimming.
     
  20. KWhatley

    KWhatley Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    869
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Location:
    London, UK
    Looks good mate. The only downside I can see is no way to use a saw with a depth stop but doing it freehand after making the initial slots shouldn't be a massive issue.

    You've got me wanting to start mine early but I really shouldn't as I'm up to my neck in builds already.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.