1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Multi-purpose studio monitors?

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by Jakedog, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,612
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    Hey. I’m new to self recording. Learning as I go. I need a set of monitors, but I also need a set of smaller and more portable PA speakers. I’m wondering if I can double up.

    Specifically with the Headrush 8” FRFR units. I know I want my monitors to be as flat as possible. I tried out a Headrush and think it would be a great speaker for my solo shows, just using the low Z out on my acoustic amp to feed them.

    So are there any downsides to using a pair of FRFR speakers like this as powered home studio monitors?
     
    Chud likes this.
  2. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,636
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Location:
    Indiana
    Jake, I was thinking the same thing the other day. My son wants to get into making music for video games, so we downloaded some stuff and are waiting to remodel a bit and move some furniture to make a proper recording space.

    I was thinking, can I just double up and use the JBL Eon 610's?
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  3. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,612
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    I’ve thought about the JBLs. And I need to try them. I was thinking having something truly FRFR might be better for studio monitoring, but I’m new at all this.
     
  4. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,612
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    I also thought I might kill three birds-

    1. Ultralight and portable acoustic PA.
    2. Monitor wedges to use in conjunction with the JBL mains at full band gigs. Such a compact system.
    3. Studio monitors.

    A decent pair of studio monitors is gonna cost me at least as much as a pair of these Headrush things, and that’s all they’re good for.
     
  5. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,409
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    MV, CA
    I'll pass along some experience. I had a friend who bought a pair of studio monitors, heavy duty, JBLs. The pair was a couple of grand. He used them for live until, the tweeters and woofers failed within a few weeks. Seems there are transient peaks from bass, kick and pounding guitars which destroy speakers designed for rooms vs live venues.

    Most studio monitors are great for operation around 85db with maybe some occasional loud play in a studio room. They don't hold up well for sustained loud volumes in larger spaces.

    Good luck
     
    ndcaster likes this.
  6. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,460
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Location:
    Near Athens GA USA
    I have the Headrush 108 FRFR for a few months and it's worked pretty good for me as a monitoring system. I think it would scale well in a live playing situation where a lot of volume wasn't needed.

    A few years ago, I had a set of stage monitor wedges I bought used that were better but they were big and heavy. I ended up selling them, at a profit, when the band I bought them for disbanded.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  7. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,612
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    These are live speakers, that I would be using as studio monitors. Not the other way around.
     
  8. thesamhill

    thesamhill Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    947
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA area
    Well... I could double up but my standards are flexible ;)

    I think it depends on what you're expecting out of your recordings and whether you're trying to get done fast or have time to listen to different speakers and headphones as you go.

    I get results that work for me by using a source switcher attached to a few different ways to listen, right next to my recording zone. I have some "fairly" flat speakers to work mostly on, then I take a break here and there to listen on Walkman phones, cans, earbuds, a stereo, computer speakers etc. I generally end up with a mix that sounds decent when you listen to them through phones, cans, etc. Works for me.

    But I'm not making my living on it, and I don't hear what others hear, and YMMV and all that. And I have a big sign over my guitars that says "Gnarly" so that tells you my general take on things. And like someone said here recently- you can get 90% of the way to a real studio with a couple hundred bucks and 95% of the way there with $20,000.

    Still when I look at GC's description of studio monitors- below, for your perusal- all I can think is, yeah, that's not me. That's not even really compatible with my general ethos regarding making music. So for me, I'm good with fairly flat speakers and taking a little extra time with things.

    https://www.guitarcenter.com/Studio-Monitors.gc

    When is a speaker not just a speaker? When it's a studio monitor. To the average person, there might not seem to be much difference, but music professionals know better. When you're working in the studio, you need to be able to hear your sound with complete clarity to make sure the recording will sound great even on high-fi audio systems. Studio monitors are designed for that purpose—when every note is crucial and every vocal has to be just right, you need a playback system that reproduces every nuance of the sound.

    gnarly.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
    ndcaster and Jakedog like this.
  9. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,262
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    Studio monitors and live PA speakers are like a surgeon's scalpel and a baseball bat. They're each equally useful in their applications, but not really interchangeable.

    I can't recommend the JBL 305s enough- they're cheap ($300/pr brand new, you can do better used) and work really well (I don't like saying that studio monitors "sound good", because a good monitor doesn't "sound good").

    As to the Eon 610... you REALLY don't want to mix on those.
     
    studio, Chud and Jakedog like this.
  10. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,636
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Location:
    Indiana
    I A/B'd a half dozen studio monitors and got ruined by the Yamaha HS8s.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  11. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,612
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    I’ve been eyeing the HS5 set. According to pretty much everybody I know in the engineer/producer business, which includes some pretty heavy hitters, Yamaha is the way to go if you wanna stay under a grand.
     
    Chud likes this.
  12. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,409
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    MV, CA
    If you get great translation across many speaker systems after you mix, you're good to go. Most two way speakers however have a dip at the crossover. Unless designed to negate that hole, it might be challenging. If it's a hobby, then don't worry about it.
     
  13. suthol

    suthol Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,666
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Location:
    The Gong - Australia
    One of my ex bandmates from many years ago who I just reconnected with was writing & recording the music for Ainsworth ( poker ( slot ) machines ) I would guess that at any minute of the day or night somewhere in the world a piece of his music is being played in a casino.

    I think he did alright out of that venture
     
    Jakedog and ndcaster like this.
  14. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,636
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Location:
    Indiana
    It wouldn't be a mistake, that's for sure.

    I'm still not really sure about studio monitors. I have good headphones. If I want to hear how the track sounds in real life, I convert it to crappy mp3 and play it on the speakers that came with my car, on the little tinny speakers in my laptop, or on that Bluetooth hockey puck speaker my daughter has stuck on her bedroom window.

    But my son wants to experiment with writing film music, and man, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish when it comes to audio quality.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  15. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,614
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Location:
    Between Clever and Stupid
    Here's a fundamental difference between studio monitors and live P.A./guitar type speakers: guitars used for live applications are designed to become more and more inefficent as they approach their travel limits. That means the harder you push them, the less efficient they are. It is a form of self-protection. Of course, that means they are less accurate than studio monitors. Studio monitors are designed to be as accurate as possible right up to the point of self-destruction. This is why you don't want to use studio monitors live.

    A great little anecdote: a favorite band recorded a live video over two nights of performances. As I watched the video I was surprised to see a pair of JBL 4311 studio monitors serving as the lead guitarist's "wet" speakers in a wet-dry-wet rig based around a Fender Twin. But wait - suddenly they were replaced by a set of P.A. speakers. And then they were back to 4311s. It turns out that the guitarist took his 4311 speakers the first night and promptly blew them up. The next night he replaced them with P.A. speakers. The video editor inter-cut shots from both nights.

    Another little anecdote: a video studio I work with got the contract to shoot a sitcom. The mixer for the production company presented us with a rider that demanded Yamaha NS40 monitor speakers (the two-woofer version of the Yamaha NS10M), as I recall, about ten of them, hung throughout the live audience bleachers as the foldback speakers to carry music and sound effects. We shook our heads but ordered and hung the speakers. Within no time there wasn't a functioning tweeter in the bunch. They all got blown out.

    Bob
     
    Jakedog and ndcaster like this.
  16. PC_Hater

    PC_Hater Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    160
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Interesting. I would be questioning the competence of the sound engineer. Never heard of eq and compressors?

    Meanwhile... for studio use:r Genelec. Very nice indeed! Can you use studio monitors for live sound? Yes. Ask (fairly certain is was Chris Rea might have been Mike Oldfield) - he used Quad Electrostatics live on tour!
     
  17. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,194
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Mixing a recording is hard, and takes a long time to get right. I personally have never worked with any live speakers that I'd want to try to mix recordings on. I would expect they'd bash my small mixing room, fatigue my ears, and not have enough detail to reveal problems. I'd rather just mix in headphones.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  18. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,614
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Location:
    Between Clever and Stupid
    Oh, this was the big-money world of Hollyweird and the rather famous star of the show brought his also somewhat-famous engineer with him. He wasn't going anywhere, but I had already learned that being famous and commanding a huge salary doesn't necessarily make you good.

    Bob
     
    suthol and Jakedog like this.
  19. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,801
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Location:
    New York City
    I’m in the camp of the right tool for the right job, and agree with the poster who equated the two to a scalpel and a baseball bat.

    Look at Kali Audio for studio monitors before deciding on either the Yamahas or JBLs. I’d also keep an eye out for a pair of Altos to come up on SDOTD for PA work. You can get the best of both purpose driven worlds for about $500 new.

    EDIT: I read the Yamaha model wrong that you are looking at. I have the HS-50Ms which are the immediate predecessor to the HS5s. They have gotten me through many years of mixing and mastering with some adjustments once I got to know them. Very light on the bass response given they’re 5” speakers, so there’s a learning curve on compensating for that. Once you learn that, they’re pretty easy to mix pretty well on.

    I also have a pair of Kali LP6s and they punch way above their weight. Not even a comparison to the Yamahas. And by that I mean the Kali’s are in a class way above the Yammies that I still love.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    studio and Jakedog like this.
  20. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,801
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Location:
    New York City
    For scale, HS50 vs LP6.

    B8445622-2CEC-402E-9554-70B470867DE9.jpeg E0DA0CBD-3F02-455D-AA6C-E549B7E41356.jpeg
     
    Jakedog likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.