1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

More robots please.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,326
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    The jump in automobile deaths relative to drop in miles driven stands out but so does Italy having stats in the opposite direction. I look forward to the all cars sold with automatic emergency braking later this year.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ro...1k744flxl6u&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    Even being a good driver, I appreciate the robots' consistency. We have 2 cars with the robots helping and one not. Subaru's system is definitely better than VAG so it will also be interesting to know how all the different makers do this.

    At same time GM news on "super cruise" and Tesla rumors are pretty interesting. GM will include it on the two new battery cars out soon. My Tesla owning friends say the price is dropping.
     
    Flip G likes this.
  2. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    812
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    The cruise control with distance following is nice. As far as more automated vehicles, I've seen enough issues with real time software I would prefer better driver training and simpler vehicles. But it seems the industry and academia, and I guess society, prefer to go all in on complexity in vehicles and systems instead. We'll see how it goes. This is heading toward a very complex system environment of people, conditions, sensors, software and unexpected situations.
     
    Bassman8, catdaddy, GibbyTwin and 2 others like this.
  3. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    36,849
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Wisco
    Teslas are haunted


     
  4. _MementoMori_

    _MementoMori_ Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    816
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2021
    Location:
    The Bible Belt
    My vote would be for all computerized/smart/AI automobile integration to disappear from the earth forevermore. Give me crank windows, manual locks, and a cassette deck stereo. I'm not joking even a little.
     
    meric, SheldonP, West44th and 18 others like this.
  5. Tuneup

    Tuneup Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    590
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Location:
    USA
    ^This, the increase in driving accidents has to do with people driving like idiots when there was less LEO out and about.
    I don't want any of that stuff in my vehicles.
     
    SRHmusic likes this.
  6. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,056
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Location:
    Earth
    Yep, agree. I'm a bit concerned as well. As a 30 year auto mechanic, I've seen my fair share of failed electrical components, some new right out of the box, others failing within a couple months etc. so... not sure... just sayin' it only takes 1 time for a critical electrical component to fail, and they usually fail without warning. As someone once said "Just because we can, it doesn't mean that we should". :cool:
     
  7. Ron R

    Ron R Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    4,081
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I'm not entirely sold on the automatic braking and lane assist tech just yet.
    Not saying it's not a decent idea, I'm just not convinced the implementation is at a level I'm confident in yet. And I do think there are times it can be detrimental, particularly the lane assist.
    On another note, it concerns me that people will be too reliant on it - I know only of this person second hand, but he literally just assumes that his Mercedes will do all the braking for him when necessary. He's also been in several accidents.
     
    Bassman8, SRHmusic and Telekarster like this.
  8. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,326
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    Knowing how reliable plus the underlying complexity, I've asked my cousin who started as mechanic but now manages the warranty reimbursement and various aspects of service for a large (Chicago metro area & upper Midwest) multi-brand chain. The actual stats for the in and out of warranty repairs completed isn't conjecture or so influenced with bias. Over and over he points out that while very complex, cars keep getting more reliable with part of that being more brands getting better.

    Two pilot friends (737s and now A320 family), the other Boeing (767, just retired flying 777s) over and over point out the increased safety for this sort of thing and why they wanted it in cars. Both are or were pilots with combat experience too. They point out news that supports it where the automation and safety systems have done much to cut accidents.

    The change is really the auto industry. The 2022 AEB standard is their own.

    My niece does the research and courtroom litigation for one of the US major insurers. Mostly the very high cost insurance claims from driver's messing up and killing someone or trucks where accidents can be really bad. Over and over she brings up the tragedy that could be reduced.

    Finally, we lost a family member to someone else's fault and I know the modern systems would not have let it happen. The mess was more complicated and our recourse limited by the person who started the chain of f*ckry being a municipal employee where this state limits the liability and damage.

    Robots will take care of big problems. They don't mess up as often as people.
     
  9. Tuneup

    Tuneup Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    590
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Location:
    USA
    And all you give up is your freedom.
     
    meric, JuneauMike and Telekarster like this.
  10. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,575
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Location:
    Between the Raindrops
    I particularly like the evil kind.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,056
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Location:
    Earth
    I'm not sure this is an accurate example to compare safety of aircraft vs. self driving/braking cars. For one thing, there are not nearly as many aircraft in the air as there are cars on the road. Also, aircraft are guided in part by air traffic controllers using a network all over the world to do so, in addition to their own safety systems. Additionally, all aircraft go through regular maintenance checks, overhauls, safety inspections (A,B,C checks) up to and including a complete rebuild of the entire craft if need be. All of this takes great resources, time, money, effort to keep those planes in the air. Billions in fact. Even with all this, they still fall out of the sky from time to time... sadly. Bottom line - Cars, airplanes, lawn mowers, coffee grinders, etc. They are machines, and machines fail, and it only takes 1 time. Of course, people fail too ;)
     
    JuneauMike and SRHmusic like this.
  12. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,326
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    That makes no sense to me.

    Our non-smarts car still has the black box autos have had for a long time. I'm usually with a cellular phone that's been tracking us before smarter cars or smarter phones I'm pretty sure that's been going on since 1999. Many places in many US states have cameras on highways and traffic lights that are used for investigations. Maybe this is more my state but I've seen it all over in US and outside of US. Now lots of police cars have those cameras that read your plate and give the officer your story right away.

    Your ISP tracks you even if you use a VPN. When my users are thinking they're fooling me I get an alarm for VPN use and know the source and destination pair for the communication. Do you use a credit or debit card? Where do you get your cash without a camera on you or the transaction not logged?

    My bicycle doesn't have any tracking, nor my two favorite brands of boot and shoes. There are limitations with my transportation freedom. Some are self-imposed. I'm probably better than average with respecting property rights and traffic laws.
     
  13. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,326
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    I think you're missing the point that stood out from my pilot associates and why one waited for a car purchase so he'd get his robots, but both pursued modern advanced safety in cars for same reasons they appreciated it in airplane cockpits and other systems. There is data to show safety systems for both modes of transport have improved safety.

    Earlier, before the whole auto industry went for the new standard I recall Subaru announcing their "EyeSight" was going to all vehicles they make because it was proven effective and reliable. You are correct about "just one time". The technology is reducing many "one time" incidents.
     
  14. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    937
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    upload_2021-3-5_11-31-7.png
     
  15. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    14,594
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    Yes more robots! I keep waiting for Robocop to arrive. No more bad shoots!
     
    imwjl likes this.
  16. Tuneup

    Tuneup Tele-Holic

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    590
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Location:
    USA
    It isn't just tracking, lets say we live in a brave new world where all personal transport is robotic, what do you think TPTB will do with that?
    First up, the car will only take you to places you "belong", in other words if you want to drive through the rich neighborhood to see big houses you won't be able too.
    The entire city will be coded for access based on your position and income.

    I like to pull offroad at time, drive into the desert on BLM land, robot won't be able to or won't allow it, I want to get away from an area rapidly, car won't do that, won't allow you to exceed parameters.
    And it is entirely dependent on systems that are fragile, that a large solar storm could take out.
     
    JuneauMike likes this.
  17. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,056
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Location:
    Earth
    Ha! A buddy of mine went out and got one of these when they came out. Spent somewhere around 3K for it. 6 months later he was swapping out the robot tech for vintage klusons... ;)
     
    ale.istotle likes this.
  18. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    937
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Your friend is not alone. There are a lot of G Force mechanisms sitting in junk drawers. Fortunately I didn't have the budget for it at the time.
     
    Telekarster likes this.
  19. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,056
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Location:
    Earth
    True. But it's also caused incidents as well. Plenty of recent examples no doubt to show both sides. Just sayin' there's always risk, and we shouldn't be so confident in technology that we think that risk will go away with it. Pretty sure the Corp. lawyers and insurance co's. have/will have a clause in their agreements to this affect as well ;) Cheers
     
  20. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    812
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    That's a terrible thing to happen, sorry for your loss.

    I'm not convinced that automation is the only or best response, however. I like the auto following and generally the idea of the emergency braking tech. Beyond that call me a skeptic.

    Cars are not at all like airplanes, and don't operate in anything like the controlled environment airplanes generally do. Think road construction, odd road conditions, fallen trees, animals, etc. Maintenance of all the sensors and systems is a question, given how long people try to keep cars going. And speaking of insurance pay outs, it's not clear who will be liable when there are accidents.

    It all seems very complex and expensive compared to requiring stronger driver training and responsibility (meaning consequences). Note by complexity, I'm not referring to the vehicle alone, but the larger 'systems' view of the issues above, plus human laziness when automation is available, etc. This is uncharted territory. It's very exciting for engineers, though, so there's a lot of push to make this happen quickly.

    There are plenty of examples of newer car automation failing. And this technology is very new compared to aircraft systems. Here's a few that came to mind.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...pedestrian-with-autopilot-on/?sh=34396a8858e5
    "Tesla In Taiwan Crashes Directly Into Overturned Truck, Ignores Pedestrian, With Autopilot On"

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...umerous-warnings-u-s-government-idUSKBN19A2XC
    "A man killed in a crash last year while using the semi-autonomous driving system on his Tesla Model S sedan kept his hands off the wheel for extended periods of time despite repeated automated warnings not to do so,..."

    https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/7774...not-recognize-jaywalking-pedestrian-in-fatal-
    "Self-Driving Uber SUV Did Not Recognize Jaywalking Pedestrian In Fatal Crash"

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/03/feds-investigating-deadly-friday-tesla-crash-in-florida/
    "Brown had Autopilot engaged, but the software failed to recognize the side of the white truck trailer against the bright daytime sky. The Tesla Model S crashed into the side of the trailer at full speed."

    And even airplanes built by companies with years of experience have issues with automation and safety.
    https://www.faa.gov/foia/electronic_reading_room/boeing_reading_room/media/737_RTS_Summary.pdf
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.