Modern Amp modelers vs Individual pedals vs old skool Multi effects

[Craig Williams]

Last 2 years I have been trying out a few of the more modern amp modelers / multi effects. Let me say firstly I am nearly 60yo, from the analogue era have 2 nice amps (Fender Super champ and Roland Jazz chorus) both with very sweet clean tones so I have no interest in amp / cab mods at all. I also don't record so connectivity / studio tweaks not a thing for me either. If I want to record something I will do it the old way with a mic against my amp speaker. Two of the modelers I have had recently were the POD GO and Nux MG-30. Both easy enough to use and the effects were nice but to my ears they effect the tone of your amp just way too much. More of a hi fi sort of sound. So I have come to the conclusion these are for bedroom recording guys, people who want to plug straight into a PA or people who have a crappy sounding amp trying to make it sound like something it isn't. I spent some really serious time with the Nux this week and yeah there are a ton of nice effects etc but even with all the efx blocks blanked out which should be bypassing the effects unit it was still coloring or detracting from the natural tone of my amp and took all the sparkle and top end off my Jazz Chorus. Yeah I could get it back to something like it is using master EQ etc but I shouldn't have to. I basically want delay, modulation, reverb and Dist / OD and I want these effects to enhance the sound from the amp, not alter it completely. So I have come to the conclusion these are designed pretty much for people not using an amp.

I was considering going back to individual pedals but as it happens I saw a really old Boss ME-8 last week that does have some analogue circuitry in it and was blown away by the way it took me back 30 years to when a main pedal board consisted predominantly of Boss pedals and maybe a TS9.

I was waiting on a new power supply for the ME-8 and like I said been using the MG-30 intensely the last few days so could do a good A/B
today. Was an easy choice for me, and the Nux MG-30 already listed for sale.

Not saying for a minute the old Boss unit is in anyway superior to modern set ups, of course the newer stuff is more tweakable and computer / recording friendly...has 100's more effects etc. But I don't even want to use an effects loop, in fact my amps don't have them. I just want something to plug into the front of my amp and away we go. I just feel like the modern EFX units are not geared towards live playing. Certainly don't have the sounds I am after. I let a young friend of mine hear a clip the other day of the ME-8 and he said it sounds low fi. I took that as a compliment. I don't want my tone to be hi fi. I heard someone quote about using an amp vs plugging DI into a PA and he said he still likes a Marshall or a Fender behind him so he can feel his pants leg flapping lol.

Anyone else had the same experience / observations as me?

 

[northernguitar]

I'm archaic and will likely use individual pedals until I quit playing.

 

[bgmacaw]

I'm not a big fan of effects only multi-effects units, especially going into the front end of an amp that has it's own character. I've found them to be like a Swiss army knife, a lot of OK choices but often not the exactly right tool for the job. There might be some exceptions though based on what I've heard through other peoples' rigs, such as those using Strymon or Eventide units.

So far as amp/cab modeling, I've used this a lot over the years with various configurations. My most common gigging one was to use anything from a SansAmp to a Pod going into the clean channel of my Peavey Bandit 65. There are also FRFR amps and direct-in methods for this that work well. Impulse responses have been the biggest recent gamechanger here, especially good quality third party ones.

My current configuration for playing at home is a hybrid. My main amp is a '73 Princeton Reverb. It goes into a power soak that has a line out that then goes into an IR cab pedal. From there, it goes to a mixer for recording, headphones or mini-PA. This allows me to get the tones I want from the amp at a wife and neighbor friendly volume. I also use a mix of standard pedals, some before the amp and some after.

 

[Blues Twanger]

I have done both. I like modelers for some of the benefits they bring but never end up using all the effects or features. My new middle ground is shown below, a compact blend of amp modeler and the few effects I need. With enough Boss stuff in the closet to cover all bases I could easily swap pedals in and out for any gig or session I'd do.

 

[sax4blues]

I have both.
For quiet playing <70db, I usually prefer the modeler with studio monitors.
At my church modeler is required, no amps.
But when I do play amps, I have really nice amps and pedals.

 

[chris m.]

Last 2 years I have been trying out a few of the more modern amp modelers / multi effects. Let me say firstly I am nearly 60yo, from the analogue era have 2 nice amps (Fender Super champ and Roland Jazz chorus) both with very sweet clean tones so I have no interest in amp / cab mods at all. I also don't record so connectivity / studio tweaks not a thing for me either. If I want to record something I will do it the old way with a mic against my amp speaker. Two of the modelers I have had recently were the POD GO and Nux MG-30. Both easy enough to use and the effects were nice but to my ears they effect the tone of your amp just way too much. More of a hi fi sort of sound. So I have come to the conclusion these are for bedroom recording guys, people who want to plug straight into a PA or people who have a crappy sounding amp trying to make it sound like something it isn't. I spent some really serious time with the Nux this week and yeah there are a ton of nice effects etc but even with all the efx blocks blanked out which should be bypassing the effects unit it was still coloring or detracting from the natural tone of my amp and took all the sparkle and top end off my Jazz Chorus. Yeah I could get it back to something like it is using master EQ etc but I shouldn't have to. I basically want delay, modulation, reverb and Dist / OD and I want these effects to enhance the sound from the amp, not alter it completely. So I have come to the conclusion these are designed pretty much for people not using an amp.

I was considering going back to individual pedals but as it happens I saw a really old Boss ME-8 last week that does have some analogue circuitry in it and was blown away by the way it took me back 30 years to when a main pedal board consisted predominantly of Boss pedals and maybe a TS9.

I was waiting on a new power supply for the ME-8 and like I said been using the MG-30 intensely the last few days so could do a good A/B
today. Was an easy choice for me, and the Nux MG-30 already listed for sale.

Not saying for a minute the old Boss unit is in anyway superior to modern set ups, of course the newer stuff is more tweakable and computer / recording friendly...has 100's more effects etc. But I don't even want to use an effects loop, in fact my amps don't have them. I just want something to plug into the front of my amp and away we go. I just feel like the modern EFX units are not geared towards live playing. Certainly don't have the sounds I am after. I let a young friend of mine hear a clip the other day of the ME-8 and he said it sounds low fi. I took that as a compliment. I don't want my tone to be hi fi. I heard someone quote about using an amp vs plugging DI into a PA and he said he still likes a Marshall or a Fender behind him so he can feel his pants leg flapping lol.

Anyone else had the same experience / observations as me?

I have had the exact same experience, including spending many hours tweaking a POD Go with IRs and other things to do my best to get good sounds out of it. I have no issues using digital modelers and VSTs for amps and effects when recording, but when playing live in small clubs I personally find that a "real amp" with old school analog pedals both sounds better and works better for me.

If we're strictly talking about effects, especially non-dirt-box effects, I think digital can be fine. I have an Eventide H9 Max that has great sounding reverb, echoes, chorus, phase, flange, tremolo, for example. (Although I don't use it for gigging, either, preferring to use my Boss CE-2, Phase 90, Carbon Copy Delay, and amp's built-in spring reverb. I tried it for gigging for awhile and ultimately concluded that my old school pedals were a more convenient physical interface that provided equally good or better tones, albeit with much more limited choices).

I also messed with using the POD Go as an effects unit only, turning off amps and cabs. Like you I found this option to color the sound more than my analog pedals. I suppose I could spend many hours tweaking the EQ and trying other things, but I basically decided it wasn't worth the trouble when the pedals I already owned would do the job.

Others have great success with digital modelers. For some reason they always want to insist that I should be happy with digital modelers since they are happy. Or maybe the implication is that there can't be anything wrong with the gear they spent so much money on, so there must be something wrong with me, the user. All I can say is YMMV. I guess it's a matter of personal taste.

My bass player is loving his Boss GT1000. My other guitar player really likes his ToneMaster DR. I'm happy for them. For anyone that loves their Helix or Kemper or whatever, I'm happy for you too.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I went through this journey roughly 20 years ago, so take what I write with a grain of salt since technology has advanced greatly.

I started with pedals, tried multieffects, tried a modeler unit, went back to pedals.

There are a lot of reasons. I don't like the 'traditional' layout when it comes to effect order. I like being able to twiddle something immediately via a knob instead of changing patches or going through menus or worse, needing a computer to get access to a parameter. And I loathe any kind of latency - even wobbling an expression pedal and it taking time for the effect to 'catch up' to the position. I'd honestly rather lose some minute aspect of 'tone' than having to think milliseconds ahead doing the theme from 'Shaft' to sound in time.

 

[Si G X]

I don't like anything that sounds too 'processed' ... which all that stuff does to me. I guess that's what you mean by 'Hi-Fi'

... like the sound of an over produced record. That sound has it's place (and it's fans) but it's not what I'm into.

 

[black_doug]

My only experience was with a POD from 25 years ago. It's best plugged into a keyboard amp or an amp made for acoustics. That's what I would try if I bought a POD Go.

I still love pedals into a good tube amp, so probably not gonna happen.

 

[Twang-ineer]

In terms of user simplicity, you just cant beat the Boss Me-80. It covers what more than 90% of what most of us want in front of an amp. Knobs, buttons, lights and presets (or manual) if you want. Every effect on there is quality except the amp sim and the distortions. The OD is pretty OK for me but YMMV. I have really become a Zoom fan of late, and their G6 is pretty nice. It is easy to use but nowhere near as simple as the Me-80 when it come to dropping a device in front of the amp input and getting giggable sounds instantly.

 

[Bill]

I'm lucky. I love old Chicago blues, with all its imperfections. So that rough, heartfelt sound is what I like to hear. Modern blues can sound so carefully produced that it loses the deep feeling behind the music.

The upshot is, like you, an old Rivera-era Super Champ does it for me. I stick a Blackstone MOSFET Overdrive in front, and good to go.

 

[chris m.]

I just got this new school device and it sounds amazing. Finally, a compact option that sounds like the real deal.

 

[arlum]

I'm a Caveman. I respect but will never use a modelling amp and, after trying two or three multi-effect pedals maybe fifteen or twenty years ago and finding their voices / tones to be a mere shadows of true classic effect pedal types, have sworn them off for ever too.

 

[bgmacaw]

maybe fifteen or twenty years ago

DSP chip and algorithm technology has advanced considerably since then. Don't judge today's products by yesterday's products.

 

[arlum]

Oh. This made me think of a multi-delay pedal that some might consider a multi-effect pedal. A true odd ball from a company I had little respect for. The Line 6 DL4. If I were still teaching and a student wanted a pedal that could give a decent if not perfect example of virtually all delay pedal types the DL4 would be my only recommendation. I figure the build had to be an accident by Line 6 but darn that thing is good. No selections are 10s but the vast majority rank between 7 and 9. On one of my favorite personal recordings named "Bull Dick On The Bayou" there was a section where a beautifully spacey yet highly clean guitar solo using reverse delay over a backing slide rhythm guitar track, (which I came up with by combining the tone of Alvin Lee's solo on the Ten Years After song "I'd Love To Change The World" with the reverse delay Jimi Hendrix used sparingly but beautifully on select pieces), I'd tried multiple pedals with reverse delay and, in the end, used the DL4 on the take that made it to the finished song. This may be the only time a modeled effect has appeared on one of my recordings.

 

[chris m.]

The DL4 definitely has a following.

 

[Dismalhead]

I've got a couple of modeling amps that I only bring to jams when I don't feel like hauling my pedalboard. Both have decent, but not great effects IMO.

I've had several multi-effects units over the years - Digitech, Korg, Zoom. None were true bypass and they all sucked tone out of the amp. Now I'm back to individual pedals, and I feel like I've got the best tone in my life. I'd rather have 2 or 3 great sounds than a whole bunch of mediocre ones. Plus I refuse to scroll through menus and various settings while I'm onstage.

 

[Killing Floor]

I get the appeal of multi units for cost and performance. If (IF) the effects and EQ are what you want they can be great. And a continuous circuit means the noise floor can be lower and your operation can be easier. But I am really picky about gain staging and OD and fuzz and compression and I’ve never found a model or a multi that gave me everything I want. But if one gives you what you want that’s awesome because we all have different tastes and mine is probably bad haha. I have had several multis and would not say anything bad about the ones I’ve owned.
I’m not afraid of text or graphical programming but I prefer many analog devices. I do have some midi devices but I mostly use them for recording.

 

[bgmacaw]

This made me think of a multi-delay pedal that some might consider a multi-effect pedal. A true odd ball from a company I had little respect for. The Line 6 DL4. If I were still teaching and a student wanted a pedal that could give a decent if not perfect example of virtually all delay pedal types the DL4 would be my only recommendation.

The newer Strymon, Universal Audio and Eventide delay and reverb units are much better and richer in features and well worth the slightly higher price tag.

Even on the lower end, delay pedals around the $100 range, are comparable now in sound and features.

 

[The Angle]

I seldom use pedals beyond my trusty Blues Driver, Caline reverb, and Joyo Trem. Chorus, flange, weird reverb, compression, treble boost, touch-wah, and a dozen different dirt pedals would all be a waste of money for the three times I might use them in a year. But a decent, inexpensive modeling amp like the Vox VT40X gives me access to all those effects for the price of about two pedals (or half a pedal, in the case of the used POD2 I snatched off eBay). That's a great compromise for the rare occasions when I want access to those effects.