Mixing with hearing aids ... ?

[woodman]

Audiology test at the VA clinic revealed my high-end hearing is totally blown out. What the grenades and artillery didn't get, the Ampeg SVTs and Twin Reverbs did (although I didn't mention the latter to the tester!). Since it's a service-connected disability, I'm getting a free set of Phonaks on Feb. 9.

My wife is tickled to death (tired of hearing "what'd you say, honey?") but I'm wondering what the adjustment will be in my mixing approach. The hearing test was no surprise; I've always tried to adjust to my top-end loss by mixing the hi-hat and cymbals so I could barely hear them, taking a bit of the edge off guitar solos, etc. But I'm wondering how they'll sound once I can actually *hear* them.

Do any of you guys use hearing aids, or know audio guys who do? I'm wondering if I'll need to go through all my mixes (around a hundred) and make adjustments — what a nightmare — or if I should just put a warning label on them saying "DANGER: DEAF GUY MIX!"

 

[suthol]

I've been wearing hearing aids for a couple of years now.

It's a bit like your monitors or headphones you learn what you are hearing.

Having listened to quite a few of yours theres nothing offensive at all, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised

 

[matman14]

Personally, I probably wouldn't wear 'em for music production. The guys I know who have some hearing loss, still mix (because they have learned to do it with damaged hearing), they just use their hearing aids for restaurants and movies and events.

If you're comfortable with the quality of your mixes as is, why change anything. Unless your hearing loss is so profound you really can't hear the music any more and people are telling you your work is suffering.

Good hearing aids focus on suppressing background noise and on making speech more understandable for the wearer. This is generally not helpful in mixing music, where the music is the background noise behind the lyrics.
Cheap hearing aids just make everything louder.

Neither can magically give you back high frequency hearing. Once it's gone, it's gone.

Now if you were getting implants that would be a whole new learning experience.

 

[woodman]

Thank you both for your insights. I'll probably experiment my way along and see how how everything feels — and sounds. Gotta admit, it's kind of exciting in a geezer-like way to contemplate hearing what everybody else is hearing! ... I'm thinking back to when I first got glasses, trying different things on a situational basis to see what worked. Probably very much a similar adjustment!

May repost here when the gizmos come in and give a hands-on (ears-on?) report.

 

[suthol]

I had to take mine out when we saw the Elvis movie at the theatre and I also take them out when I go to a live concert.

Goes without saying that they come out and ear plugs go in when using power tools, mowing the lawn and driving the race car.

Another issue with mine which are mid price with inbuilt multi band equalizer is that the bit that actually picks up the sound sits behind the ear so sound behind you can and does to some extent override anyone talking to you, in a restaurant ideally you want your back to a wall or vacant space so all sound is coming from the front

 

[loudboy]

Spectrum analyzer on the two-buss.

 

[fretWalkr]

+1 on using the spectrum analyzer. It sounds like your mixes are already pretty good so doing a little more "mixing with your eyes" can help compensate. The spectrum analyzer will help you see if any frequencies are out of whack.

I'm not wearing aids yet but still I don't trust my high end hearing acuity. So I do frequent comparisons of mixes with a few favorite reference mixes. I use the spectrum analyzer with the reference mixes too to see if anything looks out of line.

 

[Ben Harmless]

Good hearing aids focus on suppressing background noise and on making speech more understandable for the wearer. This is generally not helpful in mixing music, where the music is the background noise behind the lyrics.
Cheap hearing aids just make everything louder.

I second this concern. I know there are a lot of fancy options out there right now, but my best understanding of most hearing aids is that they're not necessarily intended to be flat response. I'd say even if they have EQ options, they may not be "flat" at the "flat" setting, but there's a chance that the documentation might address this.

Full disclosure, I have what's been described as a 40% hearing loss in my right ear. I perforated an ear drum as a child, and it was never repaired. I don't think I'm a genius at mixing, but I've had some very nice compliments from some notable people, and my work has gotten me asked to make some records lately. I credit this to the critical listening, rather than my hearing acuity. I may wind up with hearing aids, but I also think those damn kids need to speak up. Yeah. It's probably just that.

Also, as I've frequently said in these parts, if it sounds good, it is good, no matter who mixed it or how. I'm sure Sony Records would disagree, but there's no "correct" amount of 15k to have on your hi-hats. I agree that maybe a little mixing-with-the-eyes can make sure you're not completely missing a chunk of the spectrum, but hey, one man's "lacking highs" is another's signature sound.

All that said, I don't (yet) wear hearing aids, but expect that I will at some point based on a number of factors, and I really loved this video, from someone who I think very highly of:

 

[woodman]

Totally agree on the "mixing with the eyes" to compensate for damaged ears. I discovered the freebie Voxengo SPAN a decade ago and have since found several other plugins to help with crafting an even frequency response.

What dawned on me after reading your posts is that hearing aids might help with mix translation — another audio source to compare to your monitors, headphones, car stereo, home sound system and so forth when homing in on the mix. And you could hear reference mixes two ways to boot. So I'm looking at it more as an adventure than something to be dreaded. Thanks for your support!

 

[suthol]

You'll need to wear them daily for a couple of weeks at least to get used to them.

You'll be amazed at how loud a light switch is or how much noise you make when you take a leak

 

[WireLine]

I’ve done recording and production for many years with them, and have found turning them way down really helps. Mixing at close to 85db, then alternating between a bit boosted and a bit softer helps. Yes, good meters assist. Dithering is a plus.

It also helps to have the best converters you can afford. Cheaply produced ADDA at 96K will sound muffled and imprecise compared to very good converters at 44.1 .

 

[woodman]

I’ve done recording and production for many years with them, and have found turning them way down really helps. Mixing at close to 85db, then alternating between a bit boosted and a bit softer helps. Yes, good meters assist. Dithering is a plus.

It also helps to have the best converters you can afford. Cheaply produced ADDA at 96K will sound muffled and imprecise compared to very good converters at 44.1 .

Appreciate the specifics, WireLine ... yes, trying lower and higher levels sounds like a good way to get a big-picture idea of how the mix shapes up.

My interface is a MOTU, and to me the converters sound slightly better than the Focusrites I've used in the past — haven't been able to run down the AD/DA specs, though. (NOT to slag Focusrite, though — they were quite good and served me well.)

 

[WireLine]

Lots of high end places use MOTU, so you should be good there.

 

[feldkeen]

When I got them I realized I’ve been horribly applauding people with my playing ability

 

[Old Deaf Roadie]

People are always surprised to find out that I don’t hear much above 5kHz and I live behind a mixing console. It completely explains why my reputation is as a “loud sound guy”. I tell folks I would get hearing aids, but when I introduce myself to the band as their guy for the night wearing hearing aids, you can bet there would be a conversation on that stage as soon as I walk away. I know if it were my band there would be a conversation. In my opinion, there would be a perceived credibility issue right out of the box despite whatever positive the devices may deliver.

 

[still_fiddlin]

Best of luck Woodman!

I have a similar hearing loss, though it's compounded by tinnitus, but my hearing in typical speech range is surprisingly good. Besides "just living longer than designed for," I've also got working on the highway a couple years, a summer running a radial arm saw with no hearing protection in an under-the-OSHA-radar mobile home factory, years standing in front of or amidst amps and drums into the wee hours, doing 1000 mile days on a motorcycle, etc.

The good folks at Costco have told me that, as someone who appreciates music, I might not be happy with the aids, as their primary function is to improve hearing in a range where I don't actually have any loss. Of course, I was not looking at the modern programmable things - I've got a friend who plays at local open mics where I still show up and he spends a lot of time being frustrated by trying to adjust those things with an app on his phone. Not sure I want to go there, but I've heard those can be really good with someone who can get them adjusted correctly.

Me, I just have backed away from recording anything other than some acoustic stuff in my small, treated, converted bedroom, where I know I don't have to do much except use my eyes and RX to see if anything like the fridge compressor kicking in has slipped in where I wouldn't notice without the visual activity indications.

 

[Ed Driscoll]

Do any of you guys use hearing aids, or know audio guys who do? I'm wondering if I'll need to go through all my mixes (around a hundred) and make adjustments — what a nightmare — or if I should just put a warning label on them saying "DANGER: DEAF GUY MIX!"

I would spend a lot of time with reference mixes before, during, and after mixing your own material. Find professionally recorded songs that you know inside and out (say, that Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or Stones album you've been listening to since 1972) and are comparable to the genres you record in, and see if your mixes (old and new) are still sounding good next to them.

 

[juliejulie]

I second this concern. I know there are a lot of fancy options out there right now, but my best understanding of most hearing aids is that they're not necessarily intended to be flat response. I'd say even if they have EQ options, they may not be "flat" at the "flat" setting, but there's a chance that the documentation might address this.

Full disclosure, I have what's been described as a 40% hearing loss in my right ear. I perforated an ear drum as a child, and it was never repaired. I don't think I'm a genius at mixing, but I've had some very nice compliments from some notable people, and my work has gotten me asked to make some records lately. I credit this to the critical listening, rather than my hearing acuity. I may wind up with hearing aids, but I also think those damn kids need to speak up. Yeah. It's probably just that.

Also, as I've frequently said in these parts, if it sounds good, it is good, no matter who mixed it or how. I'm sure Sony Records would disagree, but there's no "correct" amount of 15k to have on your hi-hats. I agree that maybe a little mixing-with-the-eyes can make sure you're not completely missing a chunk of the spectrum, but hey, one man's "lacking highs" is another's signature sound.

All that said, I don't (yet) wear hearing aids, but expect that I will at some point based on a number of factors, and I really loved this video, from someone who I think very highly of:

Great video!
I've been having trouble with my hearing for a couple of months now, but I didn't realize what was going on at first. After some check-ups, I was diagnosed with hearing loss, and now I'm looking into different hearing aid options. Right now, I'm leaning towards the lyric hearing aid. Has anyone else tried it? What are your thoughts?

 

[woodman]

Welp, it's been six months since I got the aids. While they do bring back my high end, the highs are distorted-sounding and introduce a lot of confusion. So I use them in social situations on settings with max suppression of background noise and leave them home when working in the studio.

Over the years, I've adapted to the hearing loss and adapted in multiple ways — for instance, if I mix the hi-hat where I can barely hear it, listeners with normal hearing are getting the desired level. Just started a new mixing project (an album for a band out of Asheville NC) and they're delighted with the results, so I'm sticking to my tried and true methods. After the work is done, I'll listen with the aids and it's sounding good to me and, more importantly, to my clients!

So all's well in geezer audio-land. With the aids, it's like having another source to judge the mix in addition to the car, boombox, home stereo etc.

 

[tintag27]

I was just going to post a similar thread, but some good information in here!
Good luck with your new 'robot tuners' haha!