Middle Position Sounding Bad after PU replacement

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Veeseaczar, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    yes look at the hand in this picture:
    Sep13_PG_FEAT_Power-Play-4-Mods_step1_WEB.jpg

    break this connection. solder a new wire to the top solder joint and connect that to ground. the black wire will go to the switch and the white will also go to ground. (your wires maybe a different color but the idea is the same.)

    sorry for confusing you in my original post.
     
  2. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

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    So it was more obvious than expected. On the squier neck pickup metal cover theres a very conspicous solder blob that screams "I am the grounding point!"

    So we cut the jumper and wired a connection directly from that, the jumper itself being very stubby and my tech being a cranky old man who basically works for free.

    Then we swapped the leads after grounding the metal cover indepently. Every works and sounds brilliant!
     
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  3. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    You got it
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  4. TwangyWhammy

    TwangyWhammy Friend of Leo's

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    Good to hear!
     
  5. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

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    I walk away with a general desire to understand electrical circuits more comprehensively.

    My tech was annoyed but I had a lot of fun.
     
  6. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    >Edit: I guess I dont know the difference between a "negative lead" and a "grounding lead"<


    Well, envision a pickup like a light bulb.

    There are TWO wires. DEPENDING on how you hook it up, one will be the POSITIVE lead, and the other the NEGATIVE lead.

    Like your house wiring, a guitar pickup produces AC (alternating current).
    So the COIL WIRE has a negative lead, and a positive lead.

    Now, if you had a one pickup geetar, it does not matter which way you would hook the leads up to the switch (positive) and ground (the negative- to a the back of a pot usually).

    When you have a TWO pickup guitar, and connect the two pickups together in parallel, that's what the switch does in position 2, combined, they need to be in phase with one another to sound right..................that is, as far as each ones respective negitive and positive, based on the coil winding.

    There is no standard to this in the industry, id est, what is neg or pos lead wise.

    So the manufacture solders THEIR proper color wires to each pickup so THEIR set works correctly together when wired up. Say for example, common is black negative, white positive.

    Now when you mix BRANDS, you have a 50-50 shot that the two pups leads are both correct with one another out of the box

    You lost. Don't buy any lotto tickets today.



    >"grounding lead"<

    NOW comes the cover or base plate with a bridge pup deal


    The Tele neck has a metal cover, to help shield it so it is not noisy from interference-hum/buzz from lights or other electrical magnetic crap floating around in the air.

    For that cover to work as a shield, it has to be GROUNDED.

    To save money, pickup manufactures kill two birds with one stone.

    Remember the pickup COIL has a negative lead, that goes to a ground point.

    So they just jumper the COVER to that coil lead, and they SHARE a path (connection) to that ground point-back of a pot. TWO WIRE PICKUP.


    For wiring a 4 way switch, that gives parallel AND series connections via the switch, you have to have a SEPARATE COVER GROUND WIRE.


    Likewise to switch the leads like you needed to do, you can't now have that one coil lead (your trying to make the positive) grounded (which it is remember, with the cover grounding jumper wire) as that just shorts it out.

    So for your deal AND 4 way switches, a person needs a THREE WIRE PICKUP.

    1 lead is the COIL positive
    1 lead is the COIL negative
    1 lead is for cover grounding.


    Another reason in your case to do the neck, is modding YOUR NEW bridge pickup may screw your chances of any warranty if there would be an issue with it.



    P.S. I stayed at the Choo Choo a couple of times and went to that restaurant next door with the singing waitress'
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  7. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

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    The Terminal? They sing there? Weird. Foods just okay.

    Thanks for the breakdown. It makes plainer sense of some things I kinda knew and others I really didnt.
     
  8. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    This was back in early 2000's.

    Station House

    You're more than welcome on the info.
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I prefer to think of pickup leads as not being positive or negative but rather as the ends as being the .beginning and ending of one continuous wire. One end goes to ground while one end is hot Lead. In the case of the pickups in your guitar, veeseczar, the connections to the cover on the neck and to the baseplate at the bridge established which lead goes to ground. On the neck pickup on which you elected to separate that connection to the cover, those two winding leads are flipped to establish a ‘proper’ relationship with the bridge pickup....so neither was negative or positive but rather are neutral in an electrical sense. With a 4-way switch that flips those two wires, in one psotition one of those wires goes to ground while in the other two-pickup position the other end of that winding is taken to ground. So, the ends are neutral as to neg or pos until one of them is attached tod the lead of the circuit.
    Yes, diagrams show - and + assigned to the ends. IMHO,that is a simple way of indicating which end is to go to ground in a ‘normal’ situation. However, in a case such as Veeseczar’s, those ‘assigned polarities’ have to be reassigned in order to get the desired result. If the ends were really + and -, that ‘reassignment’ would not be possible. In other words, imho, those pos and neg symbols are indicative of where the end of the winding goes...and that can change due to certain situations.
    End of early morning wake up thoughts...
     
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  10. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That's not true.

    The only diff with a 4 way (vs. 3 way) is in one position, it puts the neck and bridge in SERIES. There is no phase switching/"flipping"
     
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  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I stand corrected......thanks, SJtalon.
    I should have said that freeing one pickup from the cover or bridge plate connection allows the 4-way to put the pickups in series rather than parallel.
     
  12. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    and all is good, just don't want folk confused.

    :)

    Happy pickin'
     
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