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Mid-70s Twin Reverb vs Early-70s - Is the MV the only difference?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by itsGiusto, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. Arfage

    Arfage Tele-Meister

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    There can be a lot of differences ranging all the way into ultra-linear 130w power sections. Good for bass if you convert it to a head. Stick with the 80 watt which are very nice just as they are but if you want, can be "Blackfaced" to varying degrees for not much money. Research the 100 watt; not sure about those. Could be nice too.
     
  2. Gabeezlebub

    Gabeezlebub TDPRI Member

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    Ok, this is the best post on this blog. Thanks Milspec for taking the time to do this!!! I liked the MV amp better everytime, but maybe it was because of those speakers.
     
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  3. kimbos123

    kimbos123 TDPRI Member

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    Hey, I have a 63 blackface that was cutoff from the speakers, had it fixed up and it sounds amazing but I only use half power (pulled the middle two 6L6s and one speaker disconnected) and it sounds amazing. 253rd twin reverb made. I have had silverface twins and they are too clean for me but can be blackfaced without much difficulty. The later twins with master volumes were not so great IMO. Jack Charles of Phantom Guitar Works was in a seminal country rock band called Sand. He took all their blackface twins and put master volumes in them. It ruined them more or less and did not provide the adjustable volume with gain that he was going after. I think any twin would be better with the half power option. I play loudly but mainly for myself out but full power?
     
  4. kimbos123

    kimbos123 TDPRI Member

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  5. kimbos123

    kimbos123 TDPRI Member

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    Trust me. it is worth the extra 1-2k to get a blackface twin. One of the main reasons is the quality of the iron in the transformers so it must have original trannies. The theory is that when they made iron in those days it was superior, and iron ions lined up creating better tone. This makes some sense but believe me the sound of a blackface twin is unbelievable, nothing else like it, seriously and I have 16 vintage amps but know that none of them will give me the clean sparkling headroom with a bit of bite that increases when you dig in.
     
  6. Gabeezlebub

    Gabeezlebub TDPRI Member

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    Ok gang, I read the whole blog and have been able to piece some things together, but what I know about amps could fit in a thimble. Could someone start at the beginning and fully explain the Volume-Master Volume thing? Why r they good or bad and why do people like or dislike them? I caught the turn up the MV all the way and just play with the Channel volume switch option, but my amp is set on 2 on both. Wouldn’t turning up my MV blow me out of the house? I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. Thanks!!!
     
  7. Guitarzan56

    Guitarzan56 TDPRI Member

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    There's a guy who goes by the name of Uncle Doug on YT who posts videos of classic/rare/vintage amp repairs. Personally I love the guy's videos but I only bring him up here because I'm reminded of a Twin Reverb that he worked over recently and he added a control on the negative feedback loop which sounded good. He's really sold on that very simple and easily reversible mod and does it every chance he gets. The reason I say "control" on the NFB is because I can't remember for sure if he did a switch or pot. I've seen so many of his videos that I get them mixed up in my memory. He's got two Twin Reverb videos posted.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Stratosaurus1/search?query=twin reverb
    One is a '68 and the other a '78. Do yourself a favor and watch these. Either one or possibly even bot should be beneficial as you move forward with your purchase and subsequent modding of TW. Cheers!
    Oh and the point I intended to make was that if you disconnect the MV but hate the wasted control that's hanging there you could make it a "Presense" pot by wiring it into the NFB.
     
  8. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard TDPRI Member

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    Play through both and then decide. I can see a MV making the twin more small room friendly in so much as you can overdrive the pre-amp and turn down the output. Twins are really loud considering they are only rated at 85 watts. If your playing big rooms the MV wouldn't be of use. BTW, Fender has an end of year Amp sale happening now. 65 Twin Reverb $1,449.99 '65 Twin Reverb® | Guitar Amplifiers (fender.com)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  9. pugnax

    pugnax Tele-Meister

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    Also beloved by Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead.
     
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  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The ‘The Twin’...sometimes called the red knob or evil twin...has great cleans. I don’t care for the overdrive at all. Ommv. Fwiw, this amp was produced from 1987-1994, came with black knobs near the end of the run.
     
  11. dodona

    dodona Tele-Meister

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    I can tell you for sure that all these post-tweed fender amps are pure ****, having a thin metallic sound.
     
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  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    lol.....you need to play a good one, imho. I have heard tweed amps that were thin and harsh, too.
     
  13. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    You know I thought about that afterwards. Doing winter night road patrol cuts into my sleeping and drinking. :)
     
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  14. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    The master volume as Fender did them in the 70s pretty much just sucked. But if you leave them on 10 and don't pull that awful boost, they're fine. If you want a useful master volume you're probably better off getting a Mess Boogie. Those are good, if you like master volumes.
    I will say that as a teenager I liked the Fender pull boost master volume, in my 30s, not so much. (wasted my 20s with Peaveys)
     
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  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    run the middle tone c9ntrols at max and the preamp makes the MV somewhat better...or more useful modify the preamp and th8ngs get better. But....these AB763 based amps will never be high gain monsters wherein a MV is truly an advantage. ime, the first MV Marshall’s are not what a Boogie is....both the preamp and the MV in a 2203 need to be at least halfway up to sound like a rock amp.
     
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  16. shawnoh4

    shawnoh4 TDPRI Member

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    i don't know which, post or pre, i believe only one is appropriate, probably pre. Master-master means that the amp already has a master volume control, either on one or both channels, or for the whole amp, and that you are adding an additional MV after the existing one. I would ask a tech about it and see if they have any options for you.
     
  17. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Marshall's post phase inverter master with a ganged pot is probably the best incarnation of a master I've used, but it's difficult to find a ganged 1 meg pot with a good log slope, so it ends up the last third of travel is where about 1/4-full volume lives.

    Later Fender masters - the one on my Superchamp is quite effective, I can get the preamp to 'sing' while holding the playing volume down. As the Cathodyne phase inverter doesn't add above unity gain it seems not to hurt it.
     
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  18. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Holic

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    Yup $200 is only a small chunk of change at initial purchase. Spread over the amount of time you will own and play the amp, it becomes negligible. A pre 72 non MV amp will be worth more years from now. My recommendation, spend the extra $200. It's really not that much money in 2020.
     
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  19. Deed

    Deed TDPRI Member

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    You can modify the power output of a TR using only two of the four power tubes. The Twin Reverb supports various modifications, some of them very simple to achieve different types of sounds. Check the Fender Guru website for information about this.

    http://fenderguru.com/amps/twin-reverb/
     
  20. telejnky

    telejnky Tele-Meister

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    I had the 74 tr I just loved it played it in bars and clubs all over Canada .my only issue was the speakers I plugged mine into a hiwatt 4x12 of the same year. I used the master to adjust volume to the room, and smacked the front end with a boost pedal on all the time. Huge sound . Just rode the volume knobs on my 72 tele custom. Could play anything with that combo. I saw the uncle Doug video on YouTube he disconnects the master and boost controls and
    does a negative feedback control a must see for the op
     
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