Micromobility, are you in? Is your town?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Feb 14, 2020 at 3:30 PM.

  1. GuitLoop

    GuitLoop Tele-Meister

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    I guess it all depends on what type of terrain you typically ride. It's worked really well for me. I've had it since last April and I've clocked over 1000 miles on it and had more fun on it than any other mt bike I've ever owned (because of the motor!). I tend to do more forest road riding than single track but i do take it on single track too. But I'm definitely not a shredder...no big jumps, big boulders, etc. The e-bikes that are built for more extreme riding are more expensive (Sur-Ron price range).
     
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  2. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    The problem, as I see it, with "population reduction" is being a member of the population being reduced. Would you volunteer to be in that kind of reduction? Methinks not!
     
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  3. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    There are several ways to do that, a couple are to stop promoting and pushing for population growth and another is to stop moving large groups of people around the planet/country to boost consumerism and revenue.

    It gets down to what is really the priority, the environment and maintaining resources, quality of life and room to move or maintaining a system that is unsustainable over the long term.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 11:32 PM
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  4. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Okay. That's fine with you having it and knowing what works for you but I am a ski area director and trail steward so also know what people get into.
     
  5. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Holic

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    I am a proponent of zero population growth, and in western industrialized nations, this is a possibility, though the Chinese have been trying to do this for decades with pretty much negative results. When governments try to artificially reduce populations, well, there have been several examples: the Holocaust, Stalin's purges in the USSR, Mao's Great Leap Forward in Communist China, and the Killing Fields of Pol Pot's Cambodia. In each instance, millions of people lost their lives, with untold misery. Population reduction, no!
     
  6. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I didn't come up with the term and don't like it. Before I saw planners and others use the term more and more, I considered and named the issues just like data networking. There we have "last mile" not exactly measuring on mile and switching categorized as core, distribution and access switches. You could think of it as trunk, branches, twigs and leaves. This is the twigs and leaves meeting stuff.

    It's not about mopeds or even scooters. Not about mopeds at all because they're not in the classifications of the e-assist bikes.

    The planers and engineers do not need a catchy phrases the way marketing and political leaders do. The problems are old. There are places where I've watched the corridor go from 2 to 6 or 8 lanes in my life time and after each major construction the jams build there too. When I was a little kid in a Chicago traffic jam the great aunt who married an older guy made a comment on how much worse it was with horses.

    To quote Morris Worksman from 1898 "Our Goal is to bring a more efficient, reliable and healthful transportation to modern industry.". Worksman still makes made un USA cargo and utility bikes. The lore goes something like he saw the problems for cities with horses and cars that replaced them.
     
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  7. RifleSlinger

    RifleSlinger Tele-Meister

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    I spent a day getting around Portland on a Bike City bike (orange, clunky bike that uses a smartphone app to book time on and unlock). It was a completely miserable day. The bike was horrible, and I got overcharged for leaving the part of the city that the bikoare supposed to be confined in (even though I secured it at the end of the day in an official station).

    On my next trip I rented a car to get around. I really wanted to like the bike, but it’s a horribly executed program in that instance.
     
  8. GunsOfBrixton

    GunsOfBrixton Tele-Afflicted

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  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    China has literally mountains of piled up unused share bikes that don't know what to do with, maybe they would donate them to Boise?
     
  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    My town fills up in summer due to the destination beach, and what I see is the imported foreign labor riding recycled bicycles (old clunkers they presumably buy cheap and fix a little, or ride in barely working condition), and then the retirement age couples struggling along on comfort bikes.
    Maybe four years ago the main road through town was redone with the same three lane system but adding a better bike lane on both sides. Beach town property is at a premium so the bike lane is really barely wide enough and in a few spots it pretty much disappears and bikes have to switch into the car lane.
    At least once if not several times each summer a bike is hit by a car in the center of town where impatient motorists fight to make a speedy pass through the congested area full of moms and kids in swimwear.
    Sad state of humanity and for me I'm just not comfortable with the respect for human life Americans are capable of.

    I've been an avid rider for most of my life and have four road bikes I built up myself for pleasure riding.
    In this town where I grew up, I've had four bike accidents that were not my fault, though only three involved cars and only two of those involved contact with cars.
    Riding in Boston and NYC I had one pretty bad crash with cars each, the Boston crash putting me in the hospital.
    That one I was "car doored" buy a guy parked in a Lincoln wearing a three piece suit, who was arrested and taken to jail.

    Even at 59 I was able to ride to work faster than traffic with no electric assist, and it was damn fun too!
    Reeeeaaaalllly fun riding one of my cool hot rod road bikes in traffic!
    Just a rush and I love riding, love being self propelled, love the dead silent perfectly tuned machine, love the enviro friendly taking a stand portion, love the air rushing by, love the bike I step away from upon arrival, just love the whole thing.

    Except for the damned idiots populating the road.

    Yesterday my wife who doesn't drive and relies on me for transport said she was thinking of buying an e scooter or moped.
    She works in sight of where people on bikes keep getting hit by cars.
    Two summers ago an older local was killed in the bike lane on a nice wide clear stretch of Rt 1 when a motorist just randomly drove into the bike lane and rear ended the cyclist.

    Since that killing the law banning even touching your cell phone while driving was passed.
    Maybe that will help?
    Those cup holder smartphone bracket ads are tearing up the TV ad programming despite new laws banning cell use while driving.
    With bluetooth and voice command we can assume motorists will be using their phones while driving forever, and I'm not sure laws can control where the motorists eyes go.
    Subaru ads suggest their cars are looking at the drivers eyes and alerting the driver when they take their eyes off the road though, so maybe grave indifference level homicidal idiocy can be managed by new tech?

    There seems to be a lot of new tech promising safer driving, and if it can make for safer biking too maybe all this can work in concert.
    I really love biking and think combined with the need for fitness and the corner of the gen pop buying fake bikes with video sims of riding out in the world, biking has a future in the solutions market.

    Funny how with the steamship like slow adaptability of humanity, solutions need marketing to be bought into.
    The attempt to move the Chinese pop into bike sharing is a good example of failed solution marketing.
    The NYC furor over bicyclists particularly after bike share began is a good example of less than stellar solution marketing.
    (Before bike share came to NYC, motorists hated cyclists but most cyclists were messengers with outlaw attitudes, and I was in that group so I saw the ire and even hatred of motorists for cyclists, to a point where one morning a stopped motorist looked me in the eye, stepped on the gas and hit me with his car)

    It's really insane for a motorist to be angry with cyclists when the reality is that every added cyclist is a subtracted car, truck or SUV.

    Essentially we live in a society of the insane, where individuals happily cut off their noses to spite their faces.

    Market the idea that those annoying cyclists in traffic are really a motorist that voluntarily moved aside to let the man go through!
    Then maybe those still safe in their climate controlled entertainment centers will be more respectful of the fragility of cycling humans that are all somebody's son daughter husband or wife.
     
  11. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I agree they have no business meddling in these things, that includes inflating the population.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020 at 10:15 AM
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  12. carpenter

    carpenter TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    I will keep and ride my harley road king
     
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  13. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I was hit riding my bicycle to work by a blue hair geezer 20 years ago.

    After several fractures, my car became my friend again.

    My wife described me as micro....
    But that's another thread.

    :)
     
  14. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Boise replaces them every year. Wash, rinse, repeat. What Boise needs is a city administration that doesn't raise property taxes every year in order to try and disprove Einstein's observation on insanity.
     
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  15. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Some of what's discussed here is fixed with good planning. I've been hit by a car but most of the two routes I take often are people and bikes separated from cars.

    Even in the home of Harley, @carpenter would get cuffed and stuffed riding his/her Harley in these access or corridor areas. Harley Davidson is also invested in this because they know what's worked for decades has big problems. Unlike the silly Ford e-bike I've seen Harley Davidson has hired top engineers from the bicycle industry.

    I have not tried Portland's system but the admittedly clunky twin cities bike share had decent customer service when we had a hiccup. In app we reported a same sort of payment problem that can happen anywhere and started walking a block to another station. We saw they had a truck dispatched to the problematic station.

    My city's bike share system is Trek's B-Cycle. Yes it's in Trek's back yard but that company is really well managed and has a reputation for top service outside of this sharing stuff.

    @telemonics hit on really some good points.

    When I was on a city council committee with this stuff coming up around 2007 it was really interesting to see the attitudes. Even people obsessed with sustainability and "green" issues you'd think would be for Trek's B-Cycle proposal were wrongly influenced by bias and stereotypes. Their enemies across the aisle had some interest that was a surprise. A few much smarter than average real estate developers, large employers, and tourism interests had open eyes and ears. The 2006ish to now span now has bike/ped corridors that let me go across town to my brother's place mostly away from cars.

    It's also worth realizing the planning commitment and executing is part of why we sit here a 20,000 person municipality in fly over country with such a strong city. It helped court the new HQ for a Fortune 500 company and US headquarters for a major European company. We're (a few municipalities) an island where people move to while the rest of the state has a population exodus problem.

    The e-assist perks up the otherwise clunky bikes I would not enjoy owning. I would not use a scooter without a helmet and I have a bias for big wheels except for a DJ bike where 26 inch wheels are still really big by comparison.

    My biggest fear in traffic and commuting when not separated well is the wave of sprawl commuters at some times of the day but they're bad when I'm in my car too. Very often you also need to watch out for the person playing super trucker in a fancy pickup - a whole other phenomenon I don't care for but I don't need to play super trucker. I've already spent too much of my life in class 8 trucks and still operate diesel machines. I just try to avoid and ignore all the drivers who are make poor choices and have poor attitudes.

    Changing street and lane design works well too. Up to a few years ago sprawlers cut through an area near me. It got so bad you had a hard time crossing a road out. They turned that into a mostly turn lane, single or space for bikes street. It forced the sprawlers to the freeway not a mile away. That freeway got bigger merge sections. It was a very good solution. It got cars out of an access network and into the distribution network, core etc.... Using the trunk and branches instead of the twigs.
     
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  16. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have only some empathy. My very attractive area means our next property tax bill will be $8000 a year. I've had a life saving the auto industry and in tech. I've lived in a crappy neighborhood and good one. We find our property tax bill a way better first class ticket than what the airlines and hotels offer.

    What do you think your area would be like if it didn't have the state government, HP, Micron, regional health care and the food related businesses?

    I don't know your bike share program but the system by us is obligated to supply bikes that work well. When most are gathered in fall they get repaired, refurbished or replaced. The frames are an AL alloy with a strong recycling market. Labor costs a lot in the US. My understanding is that major refresh is how they offer a good product and reliability.

    What about raising your kids? Something I noticed moving from a crappy to good place and our high tax bill was how it aided raising world class and can compete with the world kids.
     
  17. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Walking for me ... can't beat the health benefit and lack of environmental impact ... although I tend to wear out shoes faster ...
     
  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Does your property tax include water and sewer?
    Maybe trash pickup as well?
    Mine is over $5000 (1/3 acre lot not quite in view of the beach) but then sewer is over $1000, water is similar $ and I'm responsible for my own trash removal.
    The town transfer station allows one free trash bag per day but still takes some money from us and we have to haul it.
    I'm not sure it gets up to $8000 but it's worth noting that local incomes are not up to what property values are set at by out of state buyers of vacation homes.

    We used to have a guy renting bikes and mopeds in town, also a guitar player, but he wasn't making much $ and moved to commercial concrete sales.

    Just popped into my head: I've seen a lot of what amounts to electric skateboards with a little steering handlebar zipping around just in the last two years, and a few of those have a little seat as well.
    An advantage is the user can stash it at work easily, or at a small summer rental etc.
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    A major battle here is I-95 charging $3.00 one exit below my town while being free through the first three Maine exits and most or all states to the South.
    Many travelers who are going one or two towns further choose to skip the $3.00 for 7-14 miles of turnpike and instead drive through this tiny congested town.
    On a Friday or Saturday afternoon, Rt 1 will be at a standstill for more than a mile back as cars try to get through, and this means they are all fed up and cranky drivers.
    If the Turnpike Authority feels they must make it a toll road there are other solutions and the one they go with now has very negative consequences, possibly even leading to kids getting hit by cars, but it would be hard to prove that the extra 50% of traffic from turnpike toll avoidance is the culprit as opposed to local traffic.

    Even if there's just no land to build bike paths on, the amount of through traffic could be greatly reduced with one of many possible alternatives.
     
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